[Sat May 10 2008] [20:56:38] mariuZ: Where you from? [Sat May 10 2008] [20:56:46] mariuZ, and I'm not your sister. [Sat May 10 2008] [20:56:58] i do love u Solice and want u a good life, but in this world we all have to suffer, cuz we are in harsh times, society controls too much, and our stress drives us crazy [Sat May 10 2008] [20:57:01] I'm aware of the stats as they stand, Sara_Ks, but I don't agree that we're atheists at birth. The human mind's a bit more complex than that, and at birth isn't even possible to process the thoughts necessary to be an Atheist in the colloquial sense. :-) [Sat May 10 2008] [20:57:03] e_disciple finland [Sat May 10 2008] [20:57:42] Or is this what you meant by "growing out of it" Sara_Ks? :-) [Sat May 10 2008] [20:57:57] mariuZ: Ok. [Sat May 10 2008] [20:58:02] mariuZ, one of the powerful gifts in Jesus' teachings is that if we understand them and live them consistently, this world will not drive us crazy. It may drive us out of existence, but we will always have a sound mind and a loving heart. [Sat May 10 2008] [20:58:14] karstensrage Ok, now seriously, I do not like the definition many use for atheism, nor do I agree that new borns are atheists. I believe to be an atheist one must be concious of the concept, they must know the possibility of God existing/not existing and make a concious decision. With out this a person is dehumanised and equivalent to an inanimate object [Sat May 10 2008] [20:58:14] Solice i have met the voice of God, and it is the most beautiful, the most loveful experience someone can endure [Sat May 10 2008] [20:58:23] I think one might just as well claim that we're polytheists at birth. [Sat May 10 2008] [20:58:33] Or autotheists or some other. [Sat May 10 2008] [20:58:35] ArcturusArtioni Yes, as people grow and learn, they tend to leave atheism behind [Sat May 10 2008] [20:58:58] Solice look at urself, u dont have a loving heart. please im sorry when i say this, but i do love u, and want u the best, so please change ur mind before its too late [Sat May 10 2008] [20:59:01] no Sara_Ks .. as people grow, they are unduly influenced by their dogmatic parents [Sat May 10 2008] [20:59:06] Sara_Ks: Are you claiming from infants on? Or from children to adults? [Sat May 10 2008] [20:59:10] mariuZ, I know. The presence of God is heaven. [Sat May 10 2008] [20:59:12] i help ppl with my own powers Solice but now i dont help [Sat May 10 2008] [20:59:16] karstensrage Unsubstanciated claim [Sat May 10 2008] [20:59:17] why dont muslim children grow up christian? [Sat May 10 2008] [20:59:32] as they "grow and learn" [Sat May 10 2008] [20:59:46] mariuZ, that's disingenuous. You don't know me, therefore there is no basis for your professing to either love or appreciate me. [Sat May 10 2008] [20:59:47] karstensrage ...some have converted .. [Sat May 10 2008] [20:59:54] very few Aggello [Sat May 10 2008] [20:59:58] and vice versa [Sat May 10 2008] [20:59:59] ArcturusArtioni It could be any age, but for the most part, I would think that the conversion rate becomes significant around age 7 [Sat May 10 2008] [21:00:13] karstensrage still some do [Sat May 10 2008] [21:00:21] night all [Sat May 10 2008] [21:00:23] Part bnyfoofoo has left this channel. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:00:26] Aggello, and so what? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:00:31] karstensrage We aren't talking about a specific religion, only a belief in God [Sat May 10 2008] [21:00:42] And only theism vs atheism [Sat May 10 2008] [21:00:45] Sara_Ks, throught history humans believe in weird stuff [Sat May 10 2008] [21:00:45] Solice open ur heart, dont lock u up in a cage, be urself, pls [Sat May 10 2008] [21:00:46] so what [Sat May 10 2008] [21:00:53] As christians we have no personal powers. The only gift we have is to carry God's love and message and healing to others. The power is God's. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:01:07] karstensrage Yes, some are superstitious and become atheists [Sat May 10 2008] [21:01:10] so it not all about the parents .... while the influence is heavy .. my mom for example is a devout atheist ... [Sat May 10 2008] [21:01:12] true Solice [Sat May 10 2008] [21:01:16] i believe taking huge amounts of Vitamin C is good for me [Sat May 10 2008] [21:01:20] Sara_Ks: I think we're talking about two different things. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:01:25] i have said wrong Solice i realize this now [Sat May 10 2008] [21:01:33] karstensrage, can't hurt. It's water soluable. :) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:01:36] karstensrage Ok, but don't trust high doses of vitamins [Sat May 10 2008] [21:01:40] atheists are superstitious? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:01:42] i wouldnt have my powers if they werent God's [Sat May 10 2008] [21:01:47] ArcturusArtioni Perhaps [Sat May 10 2008] [21:01:53] mariuZ, you don't have any powers. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:01:56] Quit IDisCreationism has left this server (Quit: [BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.0c18 for Windows CE today!). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:01:57] karstensrage Of course they are [Sat May 10 2008] [21:02:00] how so [Sat May 10 2008] [21:02:11] u have powers Solice [Sat May 10 2008] [21:02:15] Sara_Ks.: For example, I have yet to see anyone under 12 years old identify as Atheist. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:02:28] karstensrage They believe in things they cannot substanciate and see it as real [Sat May 10 2008] [21:02:29] Solice have u ever known "the power of the word"? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:02:34] mariuZ, no, I don't. I only have the capacity to love and to be a light to the world. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:02:39] Sara_Ks, like what? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:02:39] ArcturusArtioni I have [Sat May 10 2008] [21:02:49] lol [Sat May 10 2008] [21:02:51] Solice why are u then giving me only darkness? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:02:54] so far youre describing theists [Sat May 10 2008] [21:02:57] Sara_Ks: I'm certain that's the vast minority. :-) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:03:02] mariuZ, I'm giving you truth. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:03:15] can u see me Solice, i have no power in my speak... no force in what i say, i affect u to 0% [Sat May 10 2008] [21:03:23] karstensrage ... vitamin c in large doses mixed with fat cells become cancerous at a higher percentage rate ... becareful with large doeses of anything ... the body can only process about 600 IU of vitamin C and discards the rest [Sat May 10 2008] [21:03:27] Join Yogensha has joined this channel (poi3wtjlkj@t2p450.socket.net). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:03:33] Mode SeekHim gives Yogensha the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:03:33] u use a cold speak Solice, it is not u, and this is either not truth [Sat May 10 2008] [21:03:33] karstensrage Well, some believe that there was a singularity. Thus the BB. Belief in a singularity is a superstition. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:03:41] Sara_Ks: Tomes of psychological works have shown that children under that age are quick to snap up primitive religious concepts on their own without any help. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:03:43] Aggello, wow, really? When did studies turn that up? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:03:53] Solice learn to speak from ur heart, and with lovec [Sat May 10 2008] [21:03:57] its not a belief... its a model backed with evidence [Sat May 10 2008] [21:03:58] and ppl will listen to u Solice [Sat May 10 2008] [21:04:02] Solice in the last 12 months I read this ... [Sat May 10 2008] [21:04:13] i do listen to u Solice but trust me, i know what u know and even more [Sat May 10 2008] [21:04:16] mariuZ, let those who have ears to hear listen. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:04:19] mobic: A model is a belief on how something works. ;-) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:04:20] ArcturusArtioni It can be true, I think religiosity was "Blueprinted" in us by God [Sat May 10 2008] [21:04:34] Sara_Ks errors on that point alot the bb is NOT a belief its a model of the universe backed by evidence [Sat May 10 2008] [21:04:38] Solice Jesus spoke from his heart, he didnt speak with coldness, u need to learn this [Sat May 10 2008] [21:04:49] Sara_Ks, you are confusing things.. the mathematics indicate a singularity, we dont believe it for no reason, we believe it because we cant explain observable evidence any other way, if another theory that makes more sense comes along we will change our minds [Sat May 10 2008] [21:04:57] ArcturusArtioni that model is not just a belief [Sat May 10 2008] [21:05:01] Solice now i see a cold soul in u, cuz ur emotions right now is cold [Sat May 10 2008] [21:05:03] but magic leprechaun, snapping his fingers makes less sense, ftr [Sat May 10 2008] [21:05:05] mobic Nice try, once again. I was not talking about the BB, but a singularity [Sat May 10 2008] [21:05:09] it comes about via evidentially [Sat May 10 2008] [21:05:13] Part Yogensha has left this channel. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:05:18] Sara_Ks once again you error [Sat May 10 2008] [21:05:22] Aggello, if the findings of the study are accurate that may explain some of the spike in occurences of cancer we've seen. Remember back in the 1970s when Linus Pauling was suggesting everyone take megadoses of vitimin C to boost their immune system, and a lot of people did it? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:05:36] yes [Sat May 10 2008] [21:05:40] other wise alll the science would be nothing but beliefs [Sat May 10 2008] [21:05:40] it did nothing [Sat May 10 2008] [21:05:45] Aggello, that's very interesting. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:06:00] God gave us smile, laugh, humour and everything that is beautiful Solice. use this, and set urself free, dont worry about magicians, trust in God [Sat May 10 2008] [21:06:05] If there's no God, then how can there be good and evil, love and hate? Why are there even opposites? Life and death? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:06:06] Aggello, yeah, I nenver found vitmin C particularly effective in preventing or lessening colds. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:06:08] Sara_Ks: Well whatever put it in us, we seem born to believe. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:06:10] karstensrage There is no math that indicates a singularity, hey you can't even tell me what a singularity is. What is it made of? Where did it come from? who has observed it and how can it be falsified? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:06:14] In something. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:06:42] Solice .. seems to have some effect in those that do not have fat cells .. however mixed with fat cells and more cancer rates are seen [Sat May 10 2008] [21:07:01] Solice do u listen to me my sis? i will tell u the truth, when i come in here and try to make friends. i truly see dead ppl [Sat May 10 2008] [21:07:16] Aggello, the combination of zinc and selenium appears to be effective in knocking out a cold. However, I found after several months that my body grew intolerant to even the recommended daily dosage of selenium. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:07:29] mariuZ Thats because some do not believe, have patience, time is on our side [Sat May 10 2008] [21:07:31] Aggello, everyone has some fat cells. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:07:50] If we don't have fat cells, we tend to die. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:07:54] Sara_Ks time is not on my side, im sorry, im for hell, already damned [Sat May 10 2008] [21:08:05] Part Jewelz has left this channel. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:08:09] Selenium is an excellent fighter of some cancer cells becareful with the zinc .... the correlation with dementia is still being studied [Sat May 10 2008] [21:08:13] mariuZ Perhaps, but hope is there, even for you [Sat May 10 2008] [21:08:15] but i do want to do good before i go to hell Sara_Ks cuz i realized evil doesnt help me [Sat May 10 2008] [21:08:22] Part Homer-Simpson has left this channel. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:08:42] Aggello, yeah, I checked with the pharmacist to confirm what the acceptable daily dosage of both zinc and selenium were before I took them. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:08:44] thanks Sara_Ks i hope our Lord have mercy upon all of us [Sat May 10 2008] [21:08:48] Mode SeekHim sets the channel limit to 47 nicks. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:09:08] karstensrage How is your belief that a singularity existed any different than a belief in God? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:09:23] Join Homer-Simpson has joined this channel (ouch@2.drunk.2.drink.at). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:09:28] Mode SeekHim gives Homer-Simpson the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:09:30] Can you list the characteristics of a singularity? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:09:39] Do you believe there is good and evil? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:10:03] RoadKill: Good and evil are in the eyes of the beholder. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:10:10] See, I believe an atheist must have faith to believe in a singularity [Sat May 10 2008] [21:10:13] Solice very wise ... yes it is true we all have some fat cells ... however those over 30lbs of weight and high doeses of Vitamin C turned up with more cancer problems ...again the body only process about 600 IU of Vitamin C .. there is no reason to exceed this limit .. and some would question going to that extent [Sat May 10 2008] [21:10:48] Sara_Ks and who says we 1) have to beleive in a singularity or 2) can't beleive in one based on the evidence? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:10:49] Sara_Ks: An Atheist does not "believe" in a singularity in the same way that a Theist believes in God. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:11:01] Sara_Ks i want to learn to know u, i will tell u everything about me so u may trust me , but can i add u on msn? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:11:04] Aggello, ah, so those who are overweight are the ones at risk, as regards taking megadoses of vitimin C? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:11:05] So, if I cut out your liver, it's neither good nor evil? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:11:07] Littlefoot NOTHING says you must believe in one [Sat May 10 2008] [21:11:15] we have evidence for that belief [Sat May 10 2008] [21:11:19] Every human being needs to have faith in something. For example, we must have faith in gravity as a coping mechanism, for if we were to question whether we'd fly off the surface of the earth with every step, we'd go insane over processing it all. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:11:32] Littlefoot There is no evidence of a singularity [Sat May 10 2008] [21:11:32] ArcturusArtioni: thats not faith. Thats observation [Sat May 10 2008] [21:11:35] RoadKill, if you're an ME, it's probably for the best. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:11:46] Join Sojo-Mojo has joined this channel (Mojo@c-24-22-168-127.hsd1.mn.comcast.net). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:11:50] Solice yes .. the study found more cancer problems when the reason they were taking the Vitamin C in the first place is because they thought it would help them ... I could find the study if needed [Sat May 10 2008] [21:11:51] Mode SeekHim gives Sojo-Mojo the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:11:58] mariuZ I don't do msn or any instant messenger [Sat May 10 2008] [21:12:00] Littlefoot: Observation means nothing with out the human mind to interpret it. :-) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:12:08] Aggello, nah that's ok. Thanks [Sat May 10 2008] [21:12:14] Littlefoot be quiet u know nothing what u say, just listen to Sara_Ks, she has life, and u r dead. if u wish to be alive, then listen carefully to her [Sat May 10 2008] [21:12:16] Sara_Ks, Olber's paradox, Hubble's Law [Sat May 10 2008] [21:12:21] pinnerup BTW,yes they do [Sat May 10 2008] [21:12:26] Sara_Ks: yes, there is. Red shift, every visible peice of the universe drifting away from a central point rather than at random, the mass and energy distribution of the universe being a net 0. These are consistant with the idea of the singularity [Sat May 10 2008] [21:12:27] the homogeniety of the universe [Sat May 10 2008] [21:12:36] Isotropy [Sat May 10 2008] [21:12:48] singularities in black holes [Sat May 10 2008] [21:12:51] Aggello, I thought it was interesting that some recent studies found that people who worked night shifts appeared to be more vulnerable to colon cancer. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:12:52] Sara_Ks k i think i should go in here more often then =) i am banned from #christian , cuz i'm a bad boy :P well, i do much wrong in my days [Sat May 10 2008] [21:12:55] Sara_Ks: No, they don't :) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:13:41] And with how our mind works we generalize into things that we (usually) believe without question and take for granted. We can't handle 100% granular logic. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:13:58] Maybe colon cancer comes from a vitamin D defiency? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:14:01] Solice I still think it is the diet or lack of a proper diet if you will [Sat May 10 2008] [21:14:17] Sara_Ks i have seen God in even nonbelivers, but u will disagree, right? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:14:18] Bring back real food instead of this processed crud. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:14:20] Littlefoot None of that indicates a singularity, you don't even know what a singularity is. Supposedly time began with the BB, how could a singularity exist it time did not exist? It would have to be outside of time. It would have to beable to produce a universe, it would have to always have existed....sounds surprisingly like the definition of God [Sat May 10 2008] [21:14:28] Arcturus .. that would help [Sat May 10 2008] [21:14:38] Aggello, I had a sister who watched her diet very carefully and drank a lot of water. she did, however, work nights as a drummer in a band. She died of colon cancer. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:14:47] Aggello: Aye. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:14:58] Margarine is only one molecule away from being plastic. Flies won't even eat it. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:15:05] mariuZ I don't disagree [Sat May 10 2008] [21:15:11] Our food and living habits have changed more over the past 50 years than over the past 500. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:15:16] u have seen it also then Sara_Ks [Sat May 10 2008] [21:15:22] Solice .. water could of been the problem ... was it filtered? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:15:42] mobic a singularity in a black hole could NOT be like THE singularity [Sat May 10 2008] [21:15:50] mariuZ sure [Sat May 10 2008] [21:15:54] ArcturusArtioni, yeah, really. I think one of our greatest problems has been using the automobile like it's a wheelchair. People don't walk to do their errands. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:15:56] Join IDisCreationism has joined this channel (~cosmo@CPE001a70e67829-CM000f9f7f15cc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:16:01] Mode SeekHim gives IDisCreationism the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:16:05] Sara_Ks i will not bother the nonbelivers to turn to God who already has God, but i do appreciate to see their goodness and holyness which comes from God [Sat May 10 2008] [21:16:06] Aggello, it was bottled water. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:16:12] Sara_Ks, during the Dover trials on evolution, Behe did the same thing.. he believed whatever he happened to think and IGNORED the mountains of scientific evidence proving him wrong [Sat May 10 2008] [21:16:14] im not like them Sara_Ks because i am bad [Sat May 10 2008] [21:16:15] Sara_Ks: I know what it is but i don't understand what it is, neither do more than a thousand people. Time apparently did exist but it was shorter than plank time. It sounds nothing like the definition of god. God is a sentient omnipotent omnicient, moral being. NOTHING of that is implied in the singularity. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:16:21] mobic If a black hole could be detected, it could not be infinately small [Sat May 10 2008] [21:16:25] And it's a real challenge to our understanding when feeding someone lab-created vitamin C that they get scurvy when giving them oranges prevents it altogether. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:16:40] it seems a very common tactic of theists to IGNORE anything that interferes with what ever they happen to think [Sat May 10 2008] [21:16:42] Solice: Agreed. We're not as active in developed nations as we once were. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:16:47] Solice .. nevertheless cancer cells have a hard time surviving with the proper Selenium and many other antiradicals like vitamin e and d [Sat May 10 2008] [21:16:48] Mode SeekHim sets the channel limit to 50 nicks. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:16:50] Sara_Ks they are detected... [Sat May 10 2008] [21:17:07] Sara_Ks i have a crazy idea that i am an angel in human body :P [Sat May 10 2008] [21:17:17] Aggello, well, she took regular dailty walks, and got exercise outside. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:17:34] God Lord knows ... sorry for your lost [Sat May 10 2008] [21:17:37] Littlefoot You know what it is but don't understand, that doesnt really work, if you know what it is, explain it using support, can your explanation be falsified? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:17:50] Littlefoot I think what you "Know" is a superstion [Sat May 10 2008] [21:18:09] lol [Sat May 10 2008] [21:18:18] sara's pseudo science [Sat May 10 2008] [21:18:27] good Lord knows even ... [Sat May 10 2008] [21:18:37] Sara_Ks i dont respect u because u are an op, but because i see life in u [Sat May 10 2008] [21:19:09] Aggello, some times I've wondered if junk dealers have put in pot they sell to the public may be what's contributed to the peak in colon cancer. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:19:12] mobic your pseudo science. If not, provide evidence [Sat May 10 2008] [21:19:15] http://www.rdrop.com/users/green/school/detect.htm [Sat May 10 2008] [21:19:25] mariuZ TY [Sat May 10 2008] [21:19:28] *your = you're (i.e. "you are") [Sat May 10 2008] [21:19:29] Sara_Ks: yes, it could have been falsified. If the net energy from a specific point were not very close to zero the idea would be falsified. If the universe were not expanding it would be falsified. If the universe were not moving away from a specific point it would be falsified. Now, before when i said that you just handwaved and say its not evidence Dismiss it again, i don't care. I don't claim [Sat May 10 2008] [21:19:33] Solice??? do u copy me :P [Sat May 10 2008] [21:19:33] Sara_Ks you provide evidence that its a superstition [Sat May 10 2008] [21:19:42] .. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:19:45] (Would have been funnier) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:19:55] Anyway, the Bible is our recorded history. If we have to prove it, prove George Washington or King George existed and did what they did. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:20:02] http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/cosmic_kids/AskKids/blackhole_detect.shtml this one might be a little easier on you [Sat May 10 2008] [21:20:04] to know how the universe got here. I do know that it is here, and i do know that the god of the gaps has been chased down every rabbit hole he's bolted down, i'm realy not expecting a different outcome this time [Sat May 10 2008] [21:20:28] Aggello, the spike in incidences of colon cancer might also be due to people taking on greater degrees of stress. This slows the colon down and/or puts its rhythm out of sync. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:20:28] Sara_Ks: Hi. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:20:31] Littlefoot do u believe in god? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:20:43] Littlefoot All that could be for many reasons, you are trying to IMPLY a singularity but are not providing any evidence for it. I could use the same set of facts and build a case for God around it [Sat May 10 2008] [21:20:50] e_disciple u were right about dead and living ppl [Sat May 10 2008] [21:21:05] the dead seem to be alive e_disciple but they are dead [Sat May 10 2008] [21:21:10] mariuZ: It makes the most sense. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:21:11] Littlefoot My case would also imply God, but not prove God [Sat May 10 2008] [21:21:18] Sara_Ks: Good evening. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:21:20] Solice I suspect marijuanna would have more negative effctives in the memory or brain function you know like dementia etc .... but that just seems logical to me ... don't really know [Sat May 10 2008] [21:21:24] hello e_disciple [Sat May 10 2008] [21:21:34] e_disciple Jesus said in matheus "let the dead bury their dead" [Sat May 10 2008] [21:21:36] Aggello, I'm just wondering. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:21:39] Sara_Ks: How do you do? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:21:51] yeah we really don't know [Sat May 10 2008] [21:21:51] e_disciple I'm fine, finally, lol [Sat May 10 2008] [21:22:07] i believe i am alive e_disciple thanks to God I am, but i have crazy ideas that i am an angel :P [Sat May 10 2008] [21:22:11] Sara_Ks: Finally? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:22:15] All my finals are done. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:22:20] http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/NumRel/BlackHoleAnat.html singualrities [Sat May 10 2008] [21:22:27] Aggello, my sister and her husand used to infrequently toke marijuana recreationally. Perhaps that plus my sister having a slow colon and her working nights made her very vulnerable to colon cancer. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:22:33] Sara_Ks: Thats ridiculous. this is why i don't talk to you. You change a word and thinks it changes a meaning. its dishonest. Look at what you said. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:22:34] Sara_Ks: Your as fine as a frog hair split four ways... [Sat May 10 2008] [21:22:36] Just a few more requirements left [Sat May 10 2008] [21:22:48] Sara_Ks: Sweet. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:23:09] e_disciple strange things has happened in my life, especially during my mother's wait for me in her body [Sat May 10 2008] [21:23:13] Littlefoot The problem isn't mine, its yours, you make that same claim everytime you cannot respond as you would like [Sat May 10 2008] [21:23:35] mariuZ: What happened? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:23:37] Littlefoot It gets old having you call me dishonest, why, its dishonest of you [Sat May 10 2008] [21:23:37] maybe i am just a thief, or truly a fallen angel e_disciple this is why i believe hell is for me [Sat May 10 2008] [21:23:49] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole all these post i have made talk of existance of black holes and in the center a singularity [Sat May 10 2008] [21:23:51] Aggello, I'm not suggesting it's the pot itself, but possibly something that dealers blende din with it. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:24:08] e_disciple my mother heard footsteps but she was alone, then she felt a presence of something she described to me as not evil, and she felt like flying up and down back to her bed where she was lying [Sat May 10 2008] [21:24:16] mariuZ: You want to go to gehena [Sat May 10 2008] [21:24:28] Sara_Ks he is right you ignore all the evidence like its all just a belief system with no evidence [Sat May 10 2008] [21:24:30] e_disciple if it is God's will i will [Sat May 10 2008] [21:24:37] Solice marijuana is taken by more people than any other illegal drug ..never heard a correlation with colon cancer ...there is more lung cancer than all the other cancers combined ... yes i understand Solice the combination of things you suggest [Sat May 10 2008] [21:24:48] Maui Wowie has lots of Mercury from the soil it's grown in. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:24:53] i bow before God cuz he is Perfect and i adore Perfectionism e_disciple [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:00] mariuZ: I want to have everlasting life on a peacefull earth. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:07] Sara_Ks: how i like.. you mean honestly? To debate the point instead of the amorphous language tapdancing around it? YOu have given the second most riduclous bit of nonsense i have ever seen here. The facts IMPLY a conclusion, and yet they are somehow not evidence for a conclusion. By all thats unholy, THINK about that for a second. We find powder burns on a suspects hands, find his gun under the bed [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:07] Join FrSam has joined this channel (~samlb@adsl-71-135-34-203.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:07] e_disciple same here [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:12] Mode SeekHim gives FrSam the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:18] e_disciple but if this is not God's will, we must accept it [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:27] Aggello, of course, I doubt we'll know just what dealers were mixing in with the pot they sold int he 1970s and 1980s. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:28] * Shirakawasuna pops in [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:40] I often wonder since lung cancer is the number 1 cancer of all the cancers combined together if that is due to marijuana smoking .. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:41] we can be happy that many will be in paradise e_disciple [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:42] Sara_Ks i am theistic i believe in God but i will not stoop to demean life times of work that have evidence to back their claims [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:45] Littlefoot You claim its rediculous, how is that? Are you claiming I can't build a case as I stated? False. and your evidence does not show a singularity, it shows the BB perhaps as coming from a single point, but that could have several explanations. You are being superstitious [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:50] and the forensics match up, but that of course wouldn't be EVIDENCE of the suspects guilt or anything [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:56] heehee, rediculous [Sat May 10 2008] [21:25:57] classic [Sat May 10 2008] [21:26:05] Sara_Ks you cant and have not [Sat May 10 2008] [21:26:06] Sara_Ks.... RFLMTO [Sat May 10 2008] [21:26:08] e_disciple i dont love God, but i bow before him, cause i know who He is [Sat May 10 2008] [21:26:20] mariuZ: I've heard that, but at the same time, you see a part where the Bible says: "God wishes not one would perish, [Sat May 10 2008] [21:26:23] i drink beer, i smoke weed, i take drugs e_disciple [Sat May 10 2008] [21:26:26] mariuZ, you're one mixed up dude. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:26:36] Solice true [Sat May 10 2008] [21:26:37] mariuZ: What kind of drugs? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:26:39] Sara_Ks..... your evidence does not show a singularity, it shows the BB perhaps as coming from a single point<--- I want that framed! [Sat May 10 2008] [21:26:46] e_disciple speed and cannabis [Sat May 10 2008] [21:27:10] and alcohol e_disciple [Sat May 10 2008] [21:27:17] I'd say that the most common extrapolation from the BB models is at *least* a gravitational singularity, although the real strength and purpose of the BB model is what happens after that t=0 point. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:27:23] mariuZ: The beer isn't so bad and even the cannabis, much medicinal. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:27:27] mariuZ: However, the speed is totally of Satan, no ifs ands or butts. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:27:37] mariuZ, I'd suggest getting into a rehab program, so you can clean out your system and find out who you are in your natural resting state. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:27:47] i can quit the speed e_disciple it would be only good for me [Sat May 10 2008] [21:27:53] Littlefoot I tap danced around nothing, I gave you direct answers, you don't like it. You don't like the difference between implied evidence and direct evidence, that is your problem, not mine. and when you use implied evidence you open a door to other implications, your comment is THE most rediculous comment I have ever heard [Sat May 10 2008] [21:28:01] mariuZ: Why do you take the speed? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:28:11] Solice i am diagnozed with schizophrenia, been hospitalized before i started drugs [Sat May 10 2008] [21:28:11] Sara_Ks nope you have not [Sat May 10 2008] [21:28:21] implied evidence and direct evidence? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:28:21] e_disciple i feel healthy during the high-process [Sat May 10 2008] [21:28:28] are these just terms you invented, Sara_Ks? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:28:29] mobic If I say up, you will say down [Sat May 10 2008] [21:28:31] you simply called the prevailing science a superstition [Sat May 10 2008] [21:28:35] like genetic oscillations? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:28:38] Sara_Ks: what on EARTH do you think a SINGULARity is if its not the entire universe originating from a SINGLEpoint ? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:28:48] Sorcerers will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Sorcery comes from the root word "Pharmakia." [Sat May 10 2008] [21:28:49] Shirakawasuna no, but I'm sure you think they are [Sat May 10 2008] [21:28:57] Sara_Ks: really? Then give me a citation [Sat May 10 2008] [21:29:02] Watching this whole exchange, I think Littlefoot and Shirakawasuna have a point. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:29:05] Sara_Ks: What was it that you called that dictation software, or something? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:29:11] mariuZ, perhaps all the more reason you shouldn't be taking non-prescription drugs. I've known people who could live well with schizophrenia, if they kept off illicit drugs and alcohol and practice cognitive therapy. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:29:13] e_disciple i know from God that all drugs, even cannabis and alcohol and cigarettes is a sin [Sat May 10 2008] [21:29:32] Littlefoot Read. its as simple as that, it is much more than an origin of a universe froma single point [Sat May 10 2008] [21:29:36] Kiss me twice. I'm schizophrenic. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:29:36] maybe not cigarettes e_disciple but if u pray to God to keep u away from cancer or heart diseases with tobacco smoking it's a sin [Sat May 10 2008] [21:29:38] mariuZ: Everything in moderation. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:29:53] Sara_Ks yes. handwave. you're ignorant. Cute. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:30:06] Roadkill .. :) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:30:07] mariuZ: Just ask Cancel. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:30:32] mariuZ: Cigarettes are stupid, no purpose. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:30:32] Solice the thing is i dont like the psychiatry, what they do to ppl. it's a cold game, all over the world [Sat May 10 2008] [21:30:39] Join Sardaukar has joined this channel (~Jackboote@239-66-74-65.gci.net). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:30:43] Mode SeekHim gives Sardaukar the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:30:44] e_disciple im addicted only to tobacco [Sat May 10 2008] [21:30:54] Part of me is paranoid, and the other is out to get him. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:30:59] ive tried to quit e_disciple [Sat May 10 2008] [21:31:09] mariuZ: Then it's a sin. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:31:16] roses are red. violets are blue. I'm a schizophrenic, and he'sa lousey poet [Sat May 10 2008] [21:31:26] mariuZ: But alcohol used wisely can be ok. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:31:33] * ArcturusArtioni chortles at Littlefoot's prose. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:31:37] Littlefoot you can't even give a valid definition of a singularity [Sat May 10 2008] [21:31:43] mariuZ, I'm sure it is. But shop around for a psychiatrist you're comfortable with. In the meantime you might want to think about letting your body clean itself out of the alcohol and illicit drugs. Those are the last things you need as someone dealing with schizophrenia. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:31:52] Sara_Ks: So what is a valid definition? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:31:58] Littlefoot Guess what, there isn't one. They don't really know what it is [Sat May 10 2008] [21:32:04] do you think Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me ? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:32:10] Sara_Ks unless you're a LOT better at math than you're making out, either can you [Sat May 10 2008] [21:32:15] I suppose I shouldn't expect a citation, then? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:32:27] a google search for "direct evidence" and "implied evidence" gets a small handful of links [Sat May 10 2008] [21:32:36] u are right Solice but its more complicated than u think in my situation [Sat May 10 2008] [21:32:39] Sara_Ks: And "they" are? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:32:41] Littlefoot I cannot give you one, I don't know any more than anyone else [Sat May 10 2008] [21:32:48] to me that indicates that it's a specialized differentiation, dependent on context [Sat May 10 2008] [21:32:51] * RoadKill wanders off... [Sat May 10 2008] [21:32:54] Quit RoadKill has left this server (Quit: Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breaths.). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:33:00] mariuZ, I don't mean to suggest it's easy. I'm just suggesting it's very much in your best interest. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:33:10] zam ..there is ONE that defeated beelzebub ... but yes to answer your question ... and its not just you [Sat May 10 2008] [21:33:12] perhaps you mean circumstantial evidence instead of 'implied' [Sat May 10 2008] [21:33:19] Sara_Ks but you know much less than others, hawking for example. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:33:48] Shirakawasuna Typical of you. Results 1 - 10 of about 528,000 for implied evidence. (0.23 seconds<<<<< That is a handful? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:33:57] Solice society doesn't care about their ppl, they want to feed them with killing neuroleptica (medicine) just cause they earn money on this cuz the tax payers pay the medicine [Sat May 10 2008] [21:34:03] Sara_Ks, you need to put it in quotes. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:34:15] Sara_Ks: typical of you. Use quotation marks to filter out the useless junk. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:34:16] 2,010 hits. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:34:25] I get 37 if you put either term in quotes [Sat May 10 2008] [21:34:27] Solice here in finland we have a high hospitalization, but few need to be hospitalized [Sat May 10 2008] [21:34:31] Littlefoot Yes and hawking does NOT claim to know what a singularity is, he has many ideas and propositions [Sat May 10 2008] [21:34:39] http://www.google.com/search?q=%22direct+evidence%22+%22implied+evidence%22 [Sat May 10 2008] [21:34:53] For "implied evidence" as a phrase. Your search returns all pages with the words "implied" and "evidence" in them, but they won't necessarily be nexted to eachother. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:35:05] Solice i am crazy, but it has a reason, and im a victim to the psychiatry. i dont want anything to do with them, and my diagnosis is just text on paper, means nothing to me [Sat May 10 2008] [21:35:09] nexted = next [Sat May 10 2008] [21:35:22] Join EmmettM has joined this channel (~Emmettbd@71.92.127.185). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:35:24] mariuZ, in Canada, they have programs that combined medication with teaching the schizophrenic patient to do their own cognitive therapy in order to regain control of their life. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:35:26] Mode SeekHim gives EmmettM the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:35:32] Shirakawasuna Typical of you. You seem to think that only having the two words together give a hit on an explanation. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:35:40] Not true [Sat May 10 2008] [21:35:44] for comparison, "circumstantial evidence" alone gets 1.3 million hits, "direct evidence" alone gets 3 million. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:35:45] Solice its just a cold game, a business [Sat May 10 2008] [21:35:48] Sara_Ks: he knows what it IS he just doesn't know how it WORKS, as the laws of physics seem to go bye bye once you get smaller than plank distance, smaller thank plank time or get a certain amount of matter in one spot. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:36:03] Sara_Ks: nope, I've done all the searches [Sat May 10 2008] [21:36:14] Littlefoot He doesnt know what it is, post it [Sat May 10 2008] [21:36:15] Sara_Ks: just searching for "implied evidence" returns a mere 2000 hits ;) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:36:16] Solice they say to their patients " u r cronic ill" and then they are also cronic... if they said "u might get healthy sooner or later, or one day" then the patient is not cronic ill [Sat May 10 2008] [21:36:17] Hmmm a lot of the hits for "implied evidence" are also coming from XML schemas. "#IMPLIED evidence" :-) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:36:24] belief has its power Solice [Sat May 10 2008] [21:36:34] Sara_Ks: of course, your error is far more hilarious, so I'm not terribly impressed with the 'typical of you' remarks. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:36:44] mariuZ, I know medicine is not what it should be. All the more reason any of us should be more careful with our health and not put junk drugs in our body. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:36:49] Arcturus ... try a legal dictionary ... i think you might find what your looking for there [Sat May 10 2008] [21:36:53] A singularity is a region of space-time in which gravitational forces are so strong that even general relativity, the well-proven gravitational theory of Einstein, and the best theory we have for describing the structure of the universe, breaks down there. A singularity marks a point where the curvature of space-time is infinite, or, in other words, it possesses zero volume and infinite density. General relativity de [Sat May 10 2008] [21:36:58] Solice and the psychiatry should know this well, those cold players... but i forgive them what theyv done to me, they only did what they were learnt to do [Sat May 10 2008] [21:36:59] http://www.pbs.org/wnet/hawking/strange/html/singular.html [Sat May 10 2008] [21:37:31] ArcturusArtioni Yes, it can be used in many contexts, it doesnt take much thought to know what evidence that is implied means. Shirakawasuna seems to think that we have to vote to know what it would mean. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:37:41] Solice cannabis is like a medicine for me, but i know by God it s a sin. but i feel very good and can laugh, and dance and be happy when im stoned on it [Sat May 10 2008] [21:38:07] Sara_Ks: really, quote me indicating any such thing ;) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:38:23] Shirakawasuna What part of implied do you not understand, what part of implied do you not understand, maybe we can go through the words and youwont have a problem with the term [Sat May 10 2008] [21:38:35] Sara_Ks: But out of your 528,000 hits only a handful are relevant to your definition. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:38:36] mariuZ, I believe you probably have encountered some real cold doctors. There are plenty of them out there, in all fields of medicine. Knowing that, you might want to get off the illicit drugs and alcohol--they're just making it more difficult for you to cognitively control the symptoms of schizophrenia. Then shop arond for a psychiatrist who has some human dimension. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:38:38] Sara_Ks: I understand implied just fine, thanks. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:38:53] Sara_Ks: I'm afraid that you're not using standard terminology. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:38:54] Shirakawasuna Good and you understand evidence, right? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:38:58] Quit Aminadabb has left this server (Quit: Christian Command 5.00). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:39:08] Sara_Ks: uh-huh. What I don't understand is your rationality for distinction and condescension on this matter. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:39:11] Shirakawasuna So why have a fit over what implied evidence means? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:39:15] i dont need a doctor Solice [Sat May 10 2008] [21:39:20] mariuZ ok [Sat May 10 2008] [21:39:22] but u r right in what u said Solice [Sat May 10 2008] [21:39:27] Sara_Ks: have a fit? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:39:33] expanding universe like ours must hvae begun as a singularity [Sat May 10 2008] [21:39:41] Solice maybe im the one who is blind, who knows? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:39:53] it sounds like because there are many singularities that would suggest multiple universes [Sat May 10 2008] [21:40:00] I've just pointed out that it's likely not any kind of recognized term, I think you again just invented this term and used it to condescend to Littlefoot [Sat May 10 2008] [21:40:26] so, want to tell me what the difference between implied and direct evidence is and where I can find citations for their usage as such? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:40:27] Shirakawasuna Easy, look at your comment 2[23:28] 01(Shirakawasuna01): I suppose I shouldn't expect a citation, then? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:40:27] 02[23:29] 01(Shirakawasuna01): a google search for "direct evidence" and "implied evidence" gets a small handful of links [Sat May 10 2008] [21:40:27] but it is most likely false that black holes do exist [Sat May 10 2008] [21:40:29] Jesus spoke about worlds (plural) ... [Sat May 10 2008] [21:40:36] mariuZ, well, do yourself a favour and don't complicate your body chemistry any more than schizophrenia already has. The ilicit drugs and alcohol just mix your body chemistry all up. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:40:43] no one has ever proved black holes exist [Sat May 10 2008] [21:40:46] Solice the problem with me is that i dont want to take any medicine for my so called problems, but i feel free when i dont take medicines [Sat May 10 2008] [21:40:48] Sara_Ks: that's not having a fit, it's doing the bare minimum to back up one's point [Sat May 10 2008] [21:40:54] Sara_Ks: it took a couple of seconds [Sat May 10 2008] [21:41:02] i know Solice [Sat May 10 2008] [21:41:05] Aggello, what do you think Jesus meant when he said "My Father's house has many mansions"? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:41:11] mariuZ :) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:41:12] Shirakawasuna your implication in your post appears to be that because there are a small number of hits there is a problem with the term [Sat May 10 2008] [21:41:22] Sara_Ks that enough of a definition for you? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:41:33] Sara_Ks: I've explained how I've interpreted the small number of hits [Sat May 10 2008] [21:41:35] Littlefoot What is enough [Sat May 10 2008] [21:41:37] Solice u should know by now that man is stupid, even if he knows what is right and wrong [Sat May 10 2008] [21:41:41] Sara_Ks: please quotem if you'd like to describe what my views are. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:41:50] Solice ..I think that idon't comprehend the depthof that statement ....I think I would be in awe if I saw it [Sat May 10 2008] [21:41:53] *quote me [Sat May 10 2008] [21:41:59] Sara_Ks: The number of hits doesn't help your case #1, and #2 using Google hits to back up your opinion is like relying upon Wikipedia as a source in a research article. It's not a good idea. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:42:06] A singularity is a region of space-time in which gravitational forces are so strong that even general relativity, the well-proven gravitational theory of Einstein, and the best theory we have for describing the structure of the universe, breaks down there. A singularity marks a point where the curvature of space-time is infinite, or, in other words, it possesses zero volume and infinite density. General relativity d [Sat May 10 2008] [21:42:24] Aggello, I've wondered if it means that people go to the areas of heaven where they are most comfortable with the people there. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:42:30] The first 10 hits of your search include: [Sat May 10 2008] [21:42:42] Littlefoot: that's a description of a gravitational singularity, yes. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:42:51] Join Jewelz has joined this channel (~Jewelz@71.92.96.119). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:42:57] Mode SeekHim gives Jewelz the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:43:08] Solice ... the universe is a big place ...and many mansions ... wow... hope we get to see it [Sat May 10 2008] [21:43:10] Jewelz: Hello. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:43:22] hi e_disciple [Sat May 10 2008] [21:43:26] !kjv Jn 14 2 [Sat May 10 2008] [21:43:28] John14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. (KJV) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:43:40] the expanding universe [Sat May 10 2008] [21:43:47] Aggello, to be some place that is saturated with the presence of God and populated by those who earnestly love God will be wonderful. :) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:43:50] Dating lute manuscripts. #IMPLIED xml fields. Broken sentences ("yadda yadda implied. Evidence suggests yadda yadda"). Etc. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:44:03] Littlefoot I scrolled back and saw your post. That is all theory, there is no direct evidence for it, in fact there are competing theories by equally authoritative people. In fact, there are problems with the definition you posted [Sat May 10 2008] [21:44:04] Jewelz: What's going on? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:44:05] can we talk in private Solice? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:44:20] mariuZ, I'd prefer to stay in channel. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:44:22] Solice i would have to put my sword back in the sheath and leave my flogging at home [Sat May 10 2008] [21:44:23] Sara_Ks: cite one competing theories by equally authoritative people.3 [Sat May 10 2008] [21:44:24] :) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:44:25] Littlefoot That is why there are different opinions on it [Sat May 10 2008] [21:44:29] Sara_Ks: cite one competing theories by equally authoritative people.3 [Sat May 10 2008] [21:44:31] ArcturusArtioni: well, some use it in more reasonable contexts. I think it's apparent that there's significant variation in the usages, meaning it's just putting the two words together, aka inventing the terms, in each article. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:44:32] Aggello, haha [Sat May 10 2008] [21:44:44] i dont wish everyone to know but ok i say it anyway Solice, this is the internet :P [Sat May 10 2008] [21:44:48] do you think jenna bush will run for president? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:44:50] Mode SeekHim removes the ban on *!*@88.243.0.191. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:45:00] Shirakawasuna: Agreed. It's not a standardized set of terminology whose meaning is undebatable or generally accepted as any one thing. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:45:22] yup. Which I wouldn't care about so much if it weren't used to condescend. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:45:26] anywho [Sat May 10 2008] [21:45:47] Aye aye. Agreed. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:45:52] Littlefoot Sure, the opinion of steinhart for one, if his is correct then the one you posted could not be correct. However, I admit, steinhart does say something like, " I hedge my bet and still consider the traditional sigularity/bb theory" He doesnt know which is right [Sat May 10 2008] [21:45:56] there are no 'mainstream' competing theories with the Big Bang that do not account for the same data or go through what is essentially a singularity. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:46:17] none that I've seen, anyways [Sat May 10 2008] [21:46:18] Sara_Ks: what is his alternate hypothesis? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:46:21] Solice i feel that i have failed God, and wish to return back to heavn. cuz i feel heaven is my only home, and my name and home here on this earth doesnt feel like my real name or home. i feel like a lonely young stupid man amongst dead cold ppl, who does evil to each others (so do i and i hate myself for this) i wish i could end this world's evil, but man is too arrogant to listen to me [Sat May 10 2008] [21:46:33] the most 'exciting' newer theories tend to be cyclical models [Sat May 10 2008] [21:46:34] Shirakawasuna There is no mainstream BB theory, it has changed over the years [Sat May 10 2008] [21:46:50] Sara_Ks: theories change over the years [Sat May 10 2008] [21:47:04] change does not invalidate something as being called the 'same' theory [Sat May 10 2008] [21:47:04] Solice and God, well he has abondoned me,. but once i heard the voice of God in my heart, it was the most beautiful thing i have ever heard, he said "dont be sad, be patient" and i hope it was God and not a silly hallucination [Sat May 10 2008] [21:47:06] Shirakawasuna exactly and they are just that, theories [Sat May 10 2008] [21:47:14] Sara_Ks: I know. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:47:19] Sara_Ks: Then by the same thought, there is no Mainstream Christianity, as it has changed over the years. :-) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:47:22] mariuZ, a lot of people feel that way. Ask God to send you the Comforter...His Holy Spirit. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:47:38] ArcturusArtioni that is true, there are different views [Sat May 10 2008] [21:48:09] Solice i have asked God many times , and confessed Jesus as my Lord and Saviour but nothing helps [Sat May 10 2008] [21:48:11] ArcturusArtioni and there HAVE been demographic models [Sat May 10 2008] [21:48:12] So, Theology, Science, it's theory. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:48:12] again, changes to a theory do not make it a different one by necessity nor does it make them non-mainstream [Sat May 10 2008] [21:48:17] so, back to my original point [Sat May 10 2008] [21:48:22] Part Homer-Simpson has left this channel. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:48:26] the bb has been challanged a lot but continues to be the prevailing model , back with the observed evidence [Sat May 10 2008] [21:48:27] the most exciting newer theories tend to be cyclical [Sat May 10 2008] [21:48:28] Join bargu has joined this channel (~parlaenc3@195.141.76.131). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:48:33] Mode SeekHim gives bargu the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:48:39] and cyclical theories involve a crunch often modeled as a singularity [Sat May 10 2008] [21:48:51] mariuZ, then jujst try to relax and wait for God to bring you peace. Medidate on God for about 10 minutes dailt, at least twice a day. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:49:09] in fact, some weirder theories involve what is essentially a singularity but which has finite density [Sat May 10 2008] [21:49:17] Littlefoot I can accept your view, I can disagree with your view, but my view is valid as well, you calling it dishonest derails conversation, it is not dishonest, it is my opinion [Sat May 10 2008] [21:49:21] Join Homer-Simpson has joined this channel (ouch@2.drunk.2.drink.at). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:49:24] Solice this is why i believe i have fallen from heaven, because i have seen many strange things, and if u read, about my mother's experience when she was waiting me. i dream about angels, and that i am one. about Gabriel last time, which is the only name i got from a dream, and some satanic demon females who tried to tempt me, but i am not them [Sat May 10 2008] [21:49:26] Mode SeekHim gives Homer-Simpson the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:49:37] Solice that is mental [Sat May 10 2008] [21:49:44] Solice belief can delude a man [Sat May 10 2008] [21:49:49] mariuZ, no, it's medication. haha [Sat May 10 2008] [21:49:50] Mode SeekHim sets the channel limit to 53 nicks. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:49:52] !skjv I go to prepare a place for you [Sat May 10 2008] [21:49:52] 1 match found: Jn14:2 [Sat May 10 2008] [21:49:56] meditation, I mean [Sat May 10 2008] [21:50:20] Sara_Ks: what is his alternate hypothesis? Your alleged distinction between two kinds of evidence seems to be more of the christian trend of borrowing post modernisms playbook in order to degenerate science into nothing more than an arbitrary narative with no more say so that religion. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:50:22] Solice belief can make a man happy, and belief can make him sad. i see more than u think in u, and other in here, i believe i see ur souls [Sat May 10 2008] [21:50:25] Sara_Ks a different opinion with out evdidence does nothing to change the prevailing one [Sat May 10 2008] [21:50:39] mariuZ, just empty your mind of all thought, except for one word--God--repeat the word God slowly and softly to yourself, for about 10 minutes. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:50:56] Solice u have opened ur heart to me, a little bit or quite much. but the first time u meet a person especially on the internet, u have a shield on [Sat May 10 2008] [21:51:15] that is not a christian method Solice [Sat May 10 2008] [21:51:38] that was behe's undoing in the dover trial that astrology could be a science [Sat May 10 2008] [21:51:40] muslims do that Solice therefor many muslims are good men, cuz they are deluded by belief but this is also good [Sat May 10 2008] [21:51:50] mariuZ, it is a christian method. It was shown to me by the holy spirit. Other christians have also been shown this medication by the holy spirit. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:52:07] Solice how do i know u r not crazy like me? :P [Sat May 10 2008] [21:52:15] mariuZ: Call upon Matunus or Andarta for strength. They'll knock your butt into shape and not ask for anything big in return. :-) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:52:18] mariuZ, you can tell by my words. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:52:20] Solice i have also met other angels on this earth [Sat May 10 2008] [21:52:42] ArcturusArtioni verry funny my bro, how is ur mother? =) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:52:43] Part ratdog has left this channel. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:52:43] Join ratdog has joined this channel (~deadhead@c-76-17-188-68.hsd1.mn.comcast.net). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:52:48] Mode SeekHim gives ratdog the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:52:58] Quit e_disciple has left this server (SVSKilled: Ghost command used by e-disciple!Obedient@6.sub-75-217-223.myvzw.com). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:53:06] Part bargu has left this channel. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:53:22] Join e_disciple has joined this channel (Obedient@6.sub-75-217-223.myvzw.com). [Sat May 10 2008] [21:53:27] Mode SeekHim gives e_disciple the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:53:36] mobic a different opinion has evidence, in my case. When the prevailing opinion lacks sufficient evidence it isn't really prevailing over anything BUT opinion [Sat May 10 2008] [21:53:38] Solice when i didnt expect it, when i didnt ask for it, God answered my suffering [Sat May 10 2008] [21:53:43] anywho, after all that, rewinding the Big Big doesn't automatically = singularity, the model that accounts for observations simply includes it. It's highly mathematical. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:53:53] that is God Solice, we need to be patient [Sat May 10 2008] [21:53:59] mariuZ, God sent angels to comfort you? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:10] god will end this world's evil soon, and i see this pattern of darkness everywhere [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:11] as science is tentative, even with those nice big mathematical models, newer ones can come around which account for the same data and do not have singularities [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:16] for example, quantum loop gravity [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:19] *loop quantum [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:21] Sara_Ks the prevailing , prevails because nothing ,(no evidence) knocks it off [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:22] Shirakawasuna mobic Littlefoot Show me where ANYONE has evidence of the laws of physics in a singularity [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:23] mariuZ: I believe you might be confusing me for someone else. My mother's been dead since 1996. Heh. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:28] Solice i dont know but i heard God's message to me in my heart [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:38] Sara_Ks: why? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:45] ArcturusArtioni i thought ur mother was dead, sorry to hear so . i bet she is fine =) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:47] show me a guava of the color ble [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:48] Sara_Ks why bother? evidence isn't evidence when you don't like it [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:50] *blue [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:51] Sara_Ks i posted lots of sights for your to look thru [Sat May 10 2008] [21:54:55] sites [Sat May 10 2008] [21:55:32] mariuZ, that is where we all hear God's message...in our heart, because God's word is spirit, it isn't text. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:55:33] mariuZ: Well we'll see. :-) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:55:45] Littlefoot ah, I promise, I will like the evidence you give that shows a singularity exists by demonstrating by what physical laws it operates [Sat May 10 2008] [21:55:51] true Solice [Sat May 10 2008] [21:56:11] Sara_Ks sure, as soon as you tell me how a broken down engine works [Sat May 10 2008] [21:56:17] [00:22] http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/NumRel/BlackHoleAnat.html singualrities [Sat May 10 2008] [21:56:18] mobic None of your sites answered the question [Sat May 10 2008] [21:56:29] [00:20] http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/cosmic_kids/AskKids/blackhole_detect.shtml [Sat May 10 2008] [21:56:37] Littlefoot If its broken down, it doesnt work [Sat May 10 2008] [21:56:39] lol [Sat May 10 2008] [21:56:49] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole [Sat May 10 2008] [21:56:56] Sara_Ks: And none of the sites you pointed me at provided atheist conversion rates. Let's work with eachother here. ;-) [Sat May 10 2008] [21:57:00] Solice do u believe that the image of 666 and the beast, ( 666 = number of man) is the image and portrait of man, also oneself for example. so we shuldnt use our own image on msn. i understood so from relevations in the bible [Sat May 10 2008] [21:57:08] Sara_Ks you didnt reas them [Sat May 10 2008] [21:57:10] Littlefoot you are tap dancing. Do you know the physical laws in a singularity or not? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:57:16] Sara_Ks EXACTLY. Now, apply that answer to the question to "by demonstrating by what physical laws it operates" [Sat May 10 2008] [21:57:23] Solice for example msn [Sat May 10 2008] [21:57:25] mobic I looked at the page you gave [Sat May 10 2008] [21:57:33] a broken down engine still has a use ... I could use the weight of the engine to serve a purpose ... I could use the working parts of the engine in other engines ... [Sat May 10 2008] [21:57:44] * Littlefoot waits for the lightbulb to go on, but doesn't hold his breath [Sat May 10 2008] [21:57:50] Littlefoot Avoidance of the question [Sat May 10 2008] [21:57:51] Solice and the churches shouldnt have images of humans and christ etc [Sat May 10 2008] [21:57:52] [Sat May 10 2008] [21:58:06] Sara_Ks you also say things like ID is a real science... and that the transcripts of the dover trial dont rule that its just creationism rehashed [Sat May 10 2008] [21:58:16] Sara_Ks you asked a trick question. "how do the laws of physics work in a place where all known laws of physics break down" [Sat May 10 2008] [21:58:16] she does? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:58:23] mariuZ, my personal theory is that the number 666 - 3, in which each 6 represents one individual....one individual who tells a lie, another individual who schills for the lie, and a third person who acts on the basis of the lie. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:58:30] because that would be hilarious, ID is primarily based on fallacies and dishonesty. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:58:36] Littlefoot Its a coverup, you were asked directly, do you know what the physical laws under which a singularity operates, yes or no? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:58:40] Er, ID = Creationism. There's really no difference other than semantics. [Sat May 10 2008] [21:58:52] Sara_Ks lol and you do? [Sat May 10 2008] [21:58:54] And not much of that [Sat May 10 2008] [21:58:57] Sara_Ks: Goodnight, and goodbye. I can see you haven't changed [Sat May 10 2008] [22:00:01] ArcturusArtioni: there's a difference. It's the illegitimate child of creationism. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:00:09] ArcturusArtioni: ID possesses far less clarity, and that's saying something. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:00:09] Littlefoot That is incorrect and doesnt answer the question. All the physical laws WE KNOW OF NOW appear to break down, but, that is not the question I asked. I asked if you knew what the physical laws under which a singularity operates is, yes or no? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:00:19] and not just when it comes to semantics [Sat May 10 2008] [22:00:41] Littlefoot you havent changes, I ask a question, you give one for some other question [Sat May 10 2008] [22:00:55] Littlefoot I call it tap dancing [Sat May 10 2008] [22:00:56] Shirakawasuna: it IS creationism. It merely changed the name. A supeonad copy of the pandas thumb proved that [Sat May 10 2008] [22:01:10] Sara_Ks are you still beating your wife? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:01:10] singularities are the center of black holes [Sat May 10 2008] [22:01:41] Littlefoot Again a diversionary answer, can you not say YES or NO to the question? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:01:43] black holes are detected [Sat May 10 2008] [22:01:49] Littlefoot: well, it came from creationism, which is why I say it's the illegitimate child. It started as a renaming with nothing concrete. Then we got vagueness unprecedented. It does recycle old creationist arguments, of course. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:01:59] mobic Yes [Sat May 10 2008] [22:02:27] Littlefoot: it's quite pitiful, though. At least "Creation Scientists" had the guts to name their ideas and put them out there, even if they were often very easy to refute [Sat May 10 2008] [22:02:34] Sara_Ks can you answer yes or no to the question are you still beating your wife? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:02:44] i have thought that i am lucifer does that make me 666 Solice? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:02:58] Littlefoot You claimed you knew what a singularity was. I asked you if you knew under which physical laws it operates. This is a simple question [Sat May 10 2008] [22:03:07] mariuZ, no, you are jst one person. I think 666 = three people. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:03:14] Littlefoot Your response is simply tap dancing [Sat May 10 2008] [22:03:20] Shirakawasuna: it didn't COME from creationism. its like my dad putting on a new hat. He doesn't BECOME me. He;s just dad with a different hat [Sat May 10 2008] [22:03:33] I really don't think there's anything more to ID than there was a Franklin Ace to an Apple II. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:03:42] http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Stolen_From_Apple.txt&topic=Software%20Design [Sat May 10 2008] [22:03:58] Littlefoot: well, I obviously disagree. I see it as a movement of individuals/propaganda, in which case it split off from its Creation Science parents, who are often still around (Ken Ham, etc). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:04:46] Solice i got a mark on my forehead that i got in a very strange way, its a scar [Sat May 10 2008] [22:04:49] Shirakawasuna: now they're trying the "teach the contraversy" malarky.. ignoring that the only contraversy is the one they made [Sat May 10 2008] [22:04:57] Littlefoot: it's still full of the creation science arguments with terminonlogy changed, but it also has tried to differentiate itself... and did an OK job for a little while. Some of the things with which it tried to differentiate itself define the movement for me as almost entirely dishonest or obviously fallacious. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:05:03] the mark, Solice, looks like a "lightning" [Sat May 10 2008] [22:05:04] ArcturusArtioni the manuscripts for creationism was the same one used for ID with creationism removed... and in some places not removed well enough [Sat May 10 2008] [22:05:16] Littlefoot: and by saying it did OK, I mean in terms of PR [Sat May 10 2008] [22:05:20] the word creationism i meant [Sat May 10 2008] [22:05:30] cdesign proponentists [Sat May 10 2008] [22:05:31] Littlefoot you clamour for people to answer questions, you get upset if you don't get a direct answer, it sure would be nice if you did as you ask others to do [Sat May 10 2008] [22:05:38] mariuZ, regardless of what it looks like, 6 represents one individual....one individual who tells a lie, another individual who schills for the lie, and a third person who acts on the basis of the lie. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:05:49] Littlefoot: oh yes, they're quite dishonest ;) [Sat May 10 2008] [22:05:51] Hence 666 = three people [Sat May 10 2008] [22:06:04] Quit e_disciple has left this server (Quit:). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:06:13] Littlefoot: they also coach legislatures on "Academic Freedom" bills like the ones that just fell through in FL [Sat May 10 2008] [22:06:20] Littlefoot: (the Discovery Institute) [Sat May 10 2008] [22:06:45] mobic: That's exactly what happened with the Franklin Ace and the Apple II. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:06:52] Shirakawasuna: right, and try to go directly to local school boards with their textbooks. OF course, they don't pay up when the board gets sued [Sat May 10 2008] [22:06:56] Solice i guess u dont know anything about marks, but i also noticed that an angelic mark called "lamed" is my mark also [Sat May 10 2008] [22:06:58] Time for me to crawl back to bed. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:07:06] niters Solice [Sat May 10 2008] [22:07:16] Littlefoot: yup! Isn't it great, tricking people? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:07:21] mobic: Franklin computing cloned the Apple II, right down to referring to it as an Apple once in the (plagerized) manual. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:07:26] sometimes it costs a school district :/ [Sat May 10 2008] [22:07:36] ArcturusArtioni i see [Sat May 10 2008] [22:07:47] Night mobic [Sat May 10 2008] [22:07:48] Shirakawasuna Noone is "Tricked" [Sat May 10 2008] [22:07:51] well i wonder if the same people worked in both places [Sat May 10 2008] [22:07:58] Sara_Ks: yes, they are. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:08:04] Lol, it was in the 1980s, who knows? :-) [Sat May 10 2008] [22:08:10] Sara_Ks: if a school board's members are convinced by knowingly dishonest arguments, I call that 'tricking' [Sat May 10 2008] [22:08:11] Sara_Ks no they were caught [Sat May 10 2008] [22:08:13] Shirakawasuna well maybe some of those atheist groups, they trick alot of people [Sat May 10 2008] [22:08:31] Sara_Ks: and I'm unwilling to believe that ID proponents honestly think many of their arguments are valid. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:08:31] Quit Solice has left this server (Quit:). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:08:49] Mode SeekHim sets the channel limit to 50 nicks. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:08:50] Shirakawasuna You call them dishonest, that is your opinion, They can well think your claims are dishonest [Sat May 10 2008] [22:09:04] Sara_Ks: yes, it is my opinion. It's an accurate one. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:09:09] behe might, to his own detriment [Sat May 10 2008] [22:09:11] Sara_Ks: don't get all postmodernist on me [Sat May 10 2008] [22:09:20] Shirakawasuna So is theirs [Sat May 10 2008] [22:09:23] lol [Sat May 10 2008] [22:09:34] Sara_Ks: nice. How am I dishonest? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:09:40] or my claim, sorry [Sat May 10 2008] [22:09:46] Shirakawasuna What do you claim I.D. is [Sat May 10 2008] [22:09:46] there's a small proxy in between there [Sat May 10 2008] [22:09:55] Sara_Ks: is that a question? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:09:59] mobic: if he still thought his arguments were good after he was trounced on the stand in the dover trial he was in some SERIOUS denile [Sat May 10 2008] [22:10:23] the dishonesty is Behe Failed to take into account all the papers and studies that countered is irreducible complexity arguement [Sat May 10 2008] [22:10:30] Shirakawasuna Its dishonest because it characterises all forms of I.D as false and has, knowingly, no support for that claim [Sat May 10 2008] [22:10:34] is=his [Sat May 10 2008] [22:10:35] mobic: they had actual biologists show about 8 examples of things he said could never happen, happening [Sat May 10 2008] [22:10:42] Sara_Ks: really? Quote me. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:10:52] Littlefoot yes [Sat May 10 2008] [22:11:20] Sara_Ks: I think you're just having fun with a petty repetition of my own claims, without any real substance [Sat May 10 2008] [22:11:22] so have fun with that [Sat May 10 2008] [22:11:25] Shirakawasuna Sure thing: 2[00:05] 01(Shirakawasuna01): Sara_Ks: and I'm unwilling to believe that I'd proponents honestly think many of their arguments are valid.<<<<< That was an inclusive statement [Sat May 10 2008] [22:12:03] i was going over the trial again last night ... the science community won big... by getting the judge to rule ID not a science [Sat May 10 2008] [22:12:36] Sara_Ks: yup, I'm talking about ID proponents as in the main forwarders of ID's claims, the 'scientific' fellows of the Discovery Institute, etc. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:12:45] and they did it wiht convincing evidence and coupled with the dishonesty of the presentation of ID [Sat May 10 2008] [22:12:47] Sara_Ks: there are some which are not that way, but they are in the minority so far as I can tell. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:13:14] Sara_Ks: I am more than willing to believe that some (many, even) people honestly buy their claims. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:13:15] Shirakawasuna There are MANY valid views of I.D. some which include evolution, hey, even a cellular origin of life, you have singled one view and posited that your objection applies to all [Sat May 10 2008] [22:13:23] what I love about the harvest... is just before the harvest there is the latter day rain that stands up the crops... :) you all have a good night and enjoy those that provide that life giving water ... :) [Sat May 10 2008] [22:13:29] !kjv Jn 4 14 [Sat May 10 2008] [22:13:31] John4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. (KJV) [Sat May 10 2008] [22:13:33] Quit Aggello has left this server (Quit: Stay in the Word for the Word is God). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:13:45] Sara_Ks: point me to one [Sat May 10 2008] [22:13:55] Sara_Ks: we'll see if it's Intelligent Design or intelligent design. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:13:57] one of what? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:14:07] Sara_Ks: one of those "MANY valid views" [Sat May 10 2008] [22:15:01] the capitalization here is important. All-caps ID is a specific movement of the last twenty years or so highlighted by Behe's and Dembski's claims. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:15:02] Ok, one, theistic evolution as posited by Collins. His view is evolution and the creation of life is by God. Yet he holds to an evolutionary process [Sat May 10 2008] [22:15:10] Sara_Ks: that's not Intelligent Design [Sat May 10 2008] [22:15:17] Sara_Ks: that's theistic evolution [Sat May 10 2008] [22:15:18] Join Bucky2 has joined this channel (~pirch@c-68-59-58-46.hsd1.al.comcast.net). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:15:22] Mode SeekHim gives Bucky2 the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:15:24] he'd probably be a bit pissed if you told him that ;) [Sat May 10 2008] [22:15:38] Shirakawasuna You cannot have theistic evolution without a designer [Sat May 10 2008] [22:15:41] note in this case there actually is a proper term [Sat May 10 2008] [22:15:50] and Intelligent Design refers to a specific movement, hence the all-caps [Sat May 10 2008] [22:15:58] it is not merely anyone who thinks there was a designer and they were intelligent [Sat May 10 2008] [22:15:59] Quit mariuZ has left this server (Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:16:09] Shirakawasuna He WOULD NOT be pissed,lol, and I have talked with him [Sat May 10 2008] [22:17:01] Shirakawasuna Intelligent Design has different views, not everyone sees it the same way [Sat May 10 2008] [22:17:53] Shirakawasuna another is a parallel cellular generation [Sat May 10 2008] [22:18:00] Sara_Ks: that's nice [Sat May 10 2008] [22:18:01] Part Sojo-Mojo has left this channel. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:18:13] Also Sophism [Sat May 10 2008] [22:18:15] Sara_Ks: find me a resource that defines Intelligent Design as any ol' designer who's intelligent, which is what you've implied [Sat May 10 2008] [22:18:15] Yeah, I think it is, and I think it more likely [Sat May 10 2008] [22:18:23] Shirakawasuna: phase 3 of the cancel method [Sat May 10 2008] [22:18:23] so ID really has no ID of what it is it self [Sat May 10 2008] [22:18:28] Sara_Ks: now you've reversed your semantics game, only both times I've been accurate. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:18:31] and you inaccurate [Sat May 10 2008] [22:18:54] Shirakawasuna easy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design [Sat May 10 2008] [22:18:57] SECOND ID = idea [Sat May 10 2008] [22:19:07] first you supply a general combination of an adjective and noun and act likes it's an established term, then you run around and take a specific capitalized term and act as if it's just the combination of a noun and adjective [Sat May 10 2008] [22:19:09] Shirakawasuna You have been wrong [Sat May 10 2008] [22:19:15] Sara_Ks: no on these two issues [Sat May 10 2008] [22:19:17] *not [Sat May 10 2008] [22:19:27] Intelligent design is the assertion that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection".[ [Sat May 10 2008] [22:19:32] That is from wiki [Sat May 10 2008] [22:19:38] Shirakawasuna step 3 again [Sat May 10 2008] [22:19:40] Quit Jewelz has left this server (Quit:). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:19:48] Mode SeekHim sets the channel limit to 47 nicks. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:20:01] Shirakawasuna is wiki wrong also? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:20:06] Sara_Ks: read the whole thing [Sat May 10 2008] [22:20:16] Sara_Ks: quote the whole first paragraph and then the one on the origin of the term [Sat May 10 2008] [22:20:17] Shirakawasuna I have read it [Sat May 10 2008] [22:20:21] ok, then I'll do it [Sat May 10 2008] [22:20:36] Intelligent design is the assertion that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection".[1][2] It is a modern form of the traditional teleological argument for the existence of God, modified to avoid specifying the nature or identity of the designer to avoid a United States court ruling prohibiting the teaching of creationism as [Sat May 10 2008] [22:20:36] science.[3][4][5] Its primary proponents, all of whom are associated with the U.S.-based Discovery Institute[6][7] believe the designer to be the God of Christianity.[8][9] Advocates of intelligent design claim it is a scientific theory,[10] and seek to fundamentally redefine science to accept supernatural explanations. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:20:39] It goes on to talk of what you are presenting [Sat May 10 2008] [22:20:52] BUT, the defintion IS the definition [Sat May 10 2008] [22:21:03] Sara_Ks againi with the strawman. She's saying that >>>I<>>D<<<>>>i<<>>>d<< "[after referring to general usage not related to the movement] The modern use of the words "intelligent design", as a term intended to describe a field of inquiry, began after the Supreme Court of the United States, in the case of Edwards v. Aguillard (1987), ruled that creationism is unconstitutional in public school science curricula. A Discovery Institute report says that Charles Thaxton, editor of Of Pandas and People, had picked the phrase [Sat May 10 2008] [22:21:22] up from a NASA scientist, and thought "That's just what I need, it's a good engineering term".[58] In drafts of the book over one hundred uses of the root word "creation", such as "creationism" and "creation science", were changed, almost without exception, to intelligent design,[19] while "creationists" was changed to "design proponents" or, in one instance, "cdesign proponentsists".[sic] [59] In June 1988 Thaxton held a conference titled [Sat May 10 2008] [22:21:22] Sources of Information Content in DNA in Tacoma, Washington,[47] and in December decided to use the label "intelligent design" for his new creationist movement.[60] Stephen C. Meyer was at the conference, and later recalled that "the term came up".[48] The book Of Pandas and People was published in 1989, and is considered to be the first intelligent design book,[61][26] as well as the first place where the phrase "intelligent design" appeared in [Sat May 10 2008] [22:21:22] its present use.[62]" [Sat May 10 2008] [22:21:31] Littlefoot Yours is the strawman, as usual [Sat May 10 2008] [22:21:33] now, you said you read it [Sat May 10 2008] [22:21:52] Shirakawasuna: , do i have the basic gist of what you're saying? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:21:53] how do you read those paragraphs and come to the conclusion that it doesn't refer to the movement highlighted by the Discovery Institute, Behe, Dembski, etc? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:22:03] as opposed to Collins' theistic evolution? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:22:12] ID has lost all credability [Sat May 10 2008] [22:22:22] Shirakawasuna Its present use is in several forms. the form is NOT the question here, its the definition of what I.D. is [Sat May 10 2008] [22:22:23] mobic can't loose what you don't have. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:22:39] Shirakawasuna you and littlefoot are presenting a strawman [Sat May 10 2008] [22:22:53] Littlefoot it almost flimmed flammed its way into it [Sat May 10 2008] [22:23:01] * Littlefoot must have lessed his presentation at home? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:23:07] left [Sat May 10 2008] [22:23:18] Shirakawasuna IT CAN refer to them, but the definition does not refer to anyone, it defines what the term means [Sat May 10 2008] [22:24:40] Nick jks is now known as jks[a]. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:24:56] brb [Sat May 10 2008] [22:25:02] seems Shirakawasuna produced the evidence and Sara_Ks has not [Sat May 10 2008] [22:25:42] * Littlefoot drops his voice an octave and looks at Shirakawasuna "FLAWLESS VICTORY" ... FINSH HER [Sat May 10 2008] [22:25:50] Join Antony has joined this channel (antony@antony.ws). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:25:54] Mode SeekHim gives Antony the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:26:10] Quit karstensrage has left this server (Read error: Operation timed out). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:26:43] mobic nice try, I guess anything produced will not be evidence, including the definition of the intelligent design web sites: The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection... http://www.intelligentdesign.org/ They must be wrong too, all hail those who know what others mean!! [Sat May 10 2008] [22:27:05] Sara_Ks he used the very site you posted against you [Sat May 10 2008] [22:27:33] mobic No he didn't, he just posted from it, where it said how a group is using it [Sat May 10 2008] [22:28:09] the group that coined the term [Sat May 10 2008] [22:28:21] Part Homer-Simpson has left this channel. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:28:45] mobic the definition I.D. ers use is this The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection. They, you or anyone else can add to it, apply it in many ways, but the definition is the definition [Sat May 10 2008] [22:29:21] Join Homer-Simpson has joined this channel (ouch@2.drunk.2.drink.at). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:29:26] Mode SeekHim gives Homer-Simpson the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:30:06] Join HRPufnstuf has joined this channel (HRPufnstuf@75.137.68.201). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:30:10] That is Creationism -- lightly disguised [Sat May 10 2008] [22:30:11] Mode SeekHim gives HRPufnstuf the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:30:15] Sara_Ks Shirakawasuna, 3 times, drew the distinction between Inteligend Design and inteligent design. YOu can argue whether the distinction is real, you can argue whether its common place, but you look absolutely ridiculous tryin to argue what Shirakawasuna MEANT by the terms. Is her head. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:30:23] when you read that definition it can mean many things. OK, some apply it in a way you don't agree with, but that is NOT the only application [Sat May 10 2008] [22:30:30] cable inet is just awesome ;-p [Sat May 10 2008] [22:30:38] the site you post is a product of discovery institute . the same place the made creationism and ID [Sat May 10 2008] [22:30:44] Hiya Sara_Ks [Sat May 10 2008] [22:30:53] and who coined the term and lost in court [Sat May 10 2008] [22:31:17] Littlefoot I.D. has several forms in use today, Shirakawasuna did NOT define that, he made a claim covering EVERYONE, I posted it [Sat May 10 2008] [22:31:22] Nick HRPufnstuf is now known as PuppyDogTales. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:31:34] Discovery Institute Center for Science and Culture [Sat May 10 2008] [22:31:34] 208 Columbia Street Seattle, WA 98104 [Sat May 10 2008] [22:31:34] phone: 206-292-0401 fax: 206-682-5320 [Sat May 10 2008] [22:31:34] email: cscinfo@discovery.org [Sat May 10 2008] [22:31:35] PuppyDogTales hi [Sat May 10 2008] [22:31:54] Sara_Ks : You have high-speed I'net? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:32:01] PuppyDogTales Yes [Sat May 10 2008] [22:32:10] Isn't ir great? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:32:11] If you call it high speed [Sat May 10 2008] [22:32:34] 18 mps up/down [Sat May 10 2008] [22:32:53] I can actually listen to online radio without it breaking up...lol [Sat May 10 2008] [22:33:04] Sara_Ks " ahehehehem..... " Sara_Ks: yup, I'm talking about ID proponents as in the main forwarders of ID's claims, the 'scientific' fellows of the Discovery Institute, etc. Sara_Ks: we'll see if it's Intelligent Design or intelligent design. +Shirakawasuna> Sara_Ks: that's not Intelligent Design [Sat May 10 2008] [22:33:04] <+Shirakawasuna> Sara_Ks: that's theistic evolution [Sat May 10 2008] [22:33:05] speed helps with that [Sat May 10 2008] [22:33:22] Oh, I got cable, mine is 292 K down, 56 K up [Sat May 10 2008] [22:33:34] Littlefoot That comment was WELL after I called him on his claim of generality [Sat May 10 2008] [22:33:41] Nick }{obWork is now known as }{obbes. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:34:06] I got more bandwidth than I have processor spped to handle it ALL [Sat May 10 2008] [22:34:08] Sara_Ks Shirakawasuna specified what she meant. Instead of trying to have an actual debate about the merits of what she meant you CONTINUE to beat on the strawman. Its cancel's mo to the leter [Sat May 10 2008] [22:34:08] PuppyDogTales That isn't bad for general internet use [Sat May 10 2008] [22:34:31] Nick PuppyDogTales is now known as HRPufnstuf. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:35:09] Littlefoot Not at all, ( I think Shirakawasuna is a he) was refuting my claims and never specified it untill I called him on it [Sat May 10 2008] [22:35:33] called him how? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:35:37] Ever use Pandora.com ? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:35:55] mobic scroll back, I'm not going to do it for you if you werent paying attention [Sat May 10 2008] [22:36:45] Sara_Ks what i see is you posting another site from the discovery institute [Sat May 10 2008] [22:37:01] Littlefoot Well, I see you using the littlefoot mo [Sat May 10 2008] [22:37:07] Sara_Ks : What OS do you use? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:37:14] Sara_Ks: <@Sara_Ks> mobic scroll back, I'm not going to do it for you if you werent paying attention Cancel technique #4. Next, you start sprouting hair in strange places and start howling at the moon. Come on, you're better than this [Sat May 10 2008] [22:37:21] mobic I have posted from several [Sat May 10 2008] [22:37:42] Sara_Ks um you did it from wiki and that last one [Sat May 10 2008] [22:38:08] Littlefoot your mo. I have posted it at least 3 times, AT LEAST. He can look back, he wasnt paying attention [Sat May 10 2008] [22:38:25] and Shirakawasuna used the wiki one against you and i pointing out the last one is from the discovery institute as well... [Sat May 10 2008] [22:38:30] HRPufnstuf I use windows, linux and BSD [Sat May 10 2008] [22:38:35] Join joe-m-36 has joined this channel (~FelizNaid@194.126.10.107). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:38:39] Mode SeekHim gives joe-m-36 the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:38:40] Sara_Ks: There was nothing to correct them on. Shirakawasuna felt that Inteligent Design (with caps) denoted something specific. You didn't share that. Instead of accepting Shirakawasuna's explination, you continue to forge ahead as if it hadn't been given. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:38:41] Sara_Ks : What windows? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:38:45] mobic He used wiki, it supported me [Sat May 10 2008] [22:39:05] Sara_Ks lol it refuted you [Sat May 10 2008] [22:39:10] wiki = wikipedia.com ? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:39:38] it says its from teh discovery institute which was noted to be fraudlent in its presentation of ID [Sat May 10 2008] [22:40:25] Sara_Ks: its like me hearing massinissa say "the Church" and try to argue that there is no "the Church" ignoring the fact that to a roman catholic The church has specific meaning [Sat May 10 2008] [22:40:47] Littlefoot first, that came later, second, there are differfent groups as I mentioned and posted, third, the court case is irrelevant to anything but what applies to that school district. It was a sham, the school board changed, they wanted out of the suit and stopped supporting it, no wonder it had the outcome it did, it only proves that there is politics ruling here, not science or anything else [Sat May 10 2008] [22:41:04] HRPufnstuf XP for the most part, but vista some [Sat May 10 2008] [22:41:17] Sara_Ks... of COURSE it came latter, because you first had to raise the point that you had a different idea on how broad the term ID is [Sat May 10 2008] [22:41:47] Notice -LloydJupiter- anyone else getting d/ced every 5 minutes? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:41:47] both post site discovery institute as the source for the term ID [Sat May 10 2008] [22:41:55] Littlefoot He wasnt talking to anyone but me, I presented what I was thinking, HE brought in that concept, which wasnt even part of the discussion [Sat May 10 2008] [22:43:17] Sara_KsL LISTEN TO YOURSELF. YOU presened what HE was thinking. YOU looked into HIS skull and saw the truth of his soul laid bare... and COMPLETELY ignored him when he said "look, this is what i mean" because you, and only you (and the shadow) know what REALY lurks in the hearts of people and other peoples assertations ABOUT THEIR OWN MIND make NO difference to what YOU know about THEM. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:44:05] Quit Chesire_Cat_In_The_Hat has left this server (Read error: Operation timed out). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:44:10] * Littlefoot wonders if this only makes sense to a sleep deprived brain, or am i onto something here? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:44:22] Littlefoot well, that is a mischaracterisation and you are doing what you claim I did. Pot kettle black [Sat May 10 2008] [22:44:40] Littlefoot the point was, and ONLY was, his claim that they were dishonest [Sat May 10 2008] [22:44:52] they are [Sat May 10 2008] [22:44:59] Quit joe-m-36 has left this server (SVSKilled: Ghost command used by joe-36-m!~FelizNaid@194.126.10.107). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:45:01] Join joe-36-m has joined this channel (~FelizNaid@194.126.10.107). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:45:03] and was proven in court to be [Sat May 10 2008] [22:45:06] Mode SeekHim gives joe-36-m the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:45:08] That they were trying to trick people, WHICH, is you doing what you claim others do [Sat May 10 2008] [22:45:15] they were [Sat May 10 2008] [22:45:19] Sara_Ks: No, what you disagreed on is who THEY are. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:45:25] mobic NOTHING in the court claimed dishonesty [Sat May 10 2008] [22:45:32] Post it [Sat May 10 2008] [22:46:00] Littlefoot NO, scroll back, he made a claim of dishonesty, THAT is what got us to it [Sat May 10 2008] [22:46:06] they tried to hide that it was a creationist book and change it as a new and independent position and its not [Sat May 10 2008] [22:46:11] Wrong or not, they are not dishonest people [Sat May 10 2008] [22:46:15] Quit ArcturusArtioni has left this server (Read error: Operation timed out). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:46:20] Sara_Ks then you missed it [Sat May 10 2008] [22:46:29] [Sat May 10 2008] [22:46:33] mobic Post it [Sat May 10 2008] [22:47:30] Sara_Ks um read the transcrips again... and or watch frontline on PBS and there the alot on youtube about it [Sat May 10 2008] [22:47:53] mobic um, can't you post where it said they were dishonest? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:48:04] Or is this just a rant? [Sat May 10 2008] [22:48:05] Sara_Ks Shirakawasuna says "Inteligent Design is dishonest" Sara says "No its not, people honestly beleive that life had an origin in inteligence" Shirakawasuna says "Thats a broader term than what i mean by "Inteligent Design" I mean the folks at the discovery institute and the like" and you steam roller the grammatical conversation without paying any attention to his explanation [Sat May 10 2008] [22:48:20] Join Chesire_Cat_In_The_Hat has joined this channel (~n4ked1@adsl-75-49-3-153.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:48:22] (paraphrases above, as i'm tired and scrolling up is pointless) [Sat May 10 2008] [22:48:25] Mode SeekHim gives Chesire_Cat_In_The_Hat the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:49:13] Sara_Ks i'm pretty sure the term dishonest came up in relation to the pandas thumb debacle [Sat May 10 2008] [22:49:22] Littlefoot The problem is his claim, that I took exeception to included all, he never changed that, but went on to use the discovery as an example [Sat May 10 2008] [22:49:28] Littlefoot read it closer [Sat May 10 2008] [22:50:08] Sara_Ks: "read it closer" is cancel move 3. There is no closer read than Sara_Ks: yup, I'm talking about ID proponents as in the main forwarders of ID's claims, the 'scientific' fellows of the Discovery Institute, etc. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:51:13] Littlefoot You are doing the Littlefoot shuffle. even AFTER he made the claim and used discovery as an example, he reverted: 2[00:14] 01(Shirakawasuna01): Sara_Ks: find me a resource that defines Intelligent Design as any ol' designer who's intelligent, which is what you've implied [Sat May 10 2008] [22:51:39] He tied his comments back to the beginning [Sat May 10 2008] [22:51:46] Stop the suffle [Sat May 10 2008] [22:51:48] shuffle [Sat May 10 2008] [22:52:19] Jones decried the breathtaking inanity of the Dover policy and accused several board members of lying to conceal their true motive, which he said was to promote religion. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:52:25] Sara_Ks because you wouldn't budge. Because you were determined to do what you do EVERY SINGLE CONVERSATION. make something into a semantics game or an argument about the argument rather than making any real points. You simply seem incapable of arguing substance [Sat May 10 2008] [22:52:38] [Sat May 10 2008] [22:52:49] But the judge said: We find that the secular purposes claimed by the board amount to a pretext for the boards real purpose, which was to promote religion in the public school classroom. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:53:21] Littlefoot The only semantics game being played is by you [Sat May 10 2008] [22:53:23] The disclaimer, he said, "singles out the theory of evolution for special treatment, misrepresents its status in the scientific community, causes students to doubt its validity without scientific justification, presents students with a religious alternative masquerading as a scientific theory, directs them to consult a creationist text as though it were a science resource and instructs students to forgo scientific inquiry [Sat May 10 2008] [22:53:42] Mode Sara_Ks sets a ban on *!*samlb@*.pacbell.net. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:53:42] Kick FrSam has been kicked from the channel by Sara_Ks (P.S. This doesn't mean we can't be friends). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:54:13] Sara_Ks: That doesn't even make sense [Sat May 10 2008] [22:54:29] Littlefoot You have not debated with substance, you have made claims and not supported them, you havent even answered questions, you shuffled [Sat May 10 2008] [22:54:42] Quit fourcreatures has left this server (Ping timeout). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:54:50] Sara_Ks: name ONE claim i didn't support [Sat May 10 2008] [22:54:57] Littlefoot I asked you a direct question, you avoided it like the plauge [Sat May 10 2008] [22:55:00] Sara_Ks: name ONE claim i didn't support [Sat May 10 2008] [22:55:05] plague [Sat May 10 2008] [22:55:08] Sara_Ks: name ONE claim i didn't support [Sat May 10 2008] [22:55:08] Kick Littlefoot has been kicked from the channel by CancelBot (No need to repeat like that). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:55:19] Join Littlefoot has joined this channel (~Littlefoo@pool-71-169-28-236.pghk.east.verizon.net). [Sat May 10 2008] [22:55:19] Mode Sara_Ks removes the ban on *!*samlb@*.pacbell.net. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:55:23] Mode SeekHim gives Littlefoot the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:55:30] The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy. It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy. [Sat May 10 2008] [22:55:30] Littlefoot Repeating [Sat May 10 2008] [22:56:00] Sara_Ks its dishonest and it was found as so [Sat May 10 2008] [22:56:06] possibly back [Sat May 10 2008] [22:56:10] darn real life :D [Sat May 10 2008] [22:56:26] i walked away from a toxic conversation because i had already answered what you were looking for and you simply twist words into an unrecognizable conglomeration and spew them back. Now, back your claim or withdraw it. name one claim i didn't support [Sat May 10 2008] [22:56:43] also, concerning Collins, http://faculty.fmcc.suny.edu/mcdarby/tucker_carlson_.htm [Sat May 10 2008] [22:56:45] Littlefoot I asked you if you knew the physical laws that THE singularity operated under, this only required a yes or no answer, you know it or not [Sat May 10 2008] [22:56:58] so I have to wonder how much you talked with Collins concerning ID [Sat May 10 2008] [22:57:02] Sara_Ks: thats not a claim. try again [Sat May 10 2008] [22:57:10] the other option is that he has presented two views [Sat May 10 2008] [22:57:24] mobic your or someones opinion [Sat May 10 2008] [22:57:31] * Shirakawasuna scrolls up [Sat May 10 2008] [22:57:40] Sara_Ks no i posted the Judges ruling... [Sat May 10 2008] [22:57:53] "[22:23] Shirakawasuna IT CAN refer to them, but the definition does not refer to anyone, it defines what the term means" [Sat May 10 2008] [22:57:57] correct [Sat May 10 2008] [22:58:03] mobic lol, yeah, those members were no longer on the board [Sat May 10 2008] [22:58:06] now check your own source, wikipedia, and read what I've described [Sat May 10 2008] [22:58:11] read what Collins described in his interview [Sat May 10 2008] [22:58:14] and the evidence in the trail showed beyond a shadow of doubt there was dishonesty involved [Sat May 10 2008] [22:58:16] it refers to that specific movement [Sat May 10 2008] [22:58:23] otherwise you're shifting goalposts [Sat May 10 2008] [22:58:28] encluding who it was the paid for the books [Sat May 10 2008] [22:58:30] Sara_Ks: find one claim i did not support or withdraw your accusation [Sat May 10 2008] [22:59:10] Shirakawasuna I know what collins said, he does not go with the discovery institute, he believes in an evolutionary process,but also believes in God and that God created life [Sat May 10 2008] [22:59:29] Sara_Ks what relevancy is there about the board change? the whole debacle was dishonest [Sat May 10 2008] [22:59:35] also, psst Littlefoot, I'm a dude [Sat May 10 2008] [23:00:10] Shirakawasuna sorry, its the vowel on the end [Sat May 10 2008] [23:01:29] it's japanese, suna = sand ;) [Sat May 10 2008] [23:01:38] Sara_Ks: find one claim i did not support or withdraw your accusation. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:02:44] * Littlefoot has an eddie murphy moment... [Sat May 10 2008] [23:02:45] [22:51] Littlefoot You are doing the Littlefoot shuffle. even AFTER he made the claim and used discovery as an example, he reverted: [00:14] (Shirakawasuna): Sara_Ks: find me a resource that defines Intelligent Design as any ol' designer who's intelligent, which is what you've implied [Sat May 10 2008] [23:02:45] [22:51] He tied his comments back to the beginning [Sat May 10 2008] [23:02:45] [22:51] Stop the suffle [Sat May 10 2008] [23:02:48] what the heck is that? ^ [Sat May 10 2008] [23:02:57] Quit Chesire_Cat_In_The_Hat has left this server (Ping timeout). [Sat May 10 2008] [23:03:03] Littlefoot you claimed you knew what the singularity was, I asked you about this singularity. I did not point out your contradiction, I simply asked a question about it, you never answered nor supported your claim that you knew what it was. 2[23:12] 01(Littlefoot01): Sara_Ks: I know what it is but i don't understand what it is, [Sat May 10 2008] [23:03:10] besides the souffl ;) [Sat May 10 2008] [23:03:44] Sara_Ks: yes, I know that Collins is an evangelical [Sat May 10 2008] [23:03:52] Sara_Ks: and he knows what ID is and knows that it's a specific and young movement [Sat May 10 2008] [23:04:02] Sara_Ks: and two minutes later i posted you a definition from a PBS website. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:04:09] Sara_Ks: his description of a claim from the ID movement was irreducible complexity. That's Behe's. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:04:32] to quote him, "Intelligent design is a fairly recent arrival on the scene. Been around 15 years or so. It argues that there are certain constructs in biology, certain particular features that can't be explained by evolution because they have irreduceable complexity." [Sat May 10 2008] [23:04:47] Shirakawasuna If you talk to him you will find that he talks of intelligent design going back to the early 1800s, not a young movement by any means [Sat May 10 2008] [23:05:01] Sara_KsL now how about an assertation i DIDN"T support? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:05:14] Sara_Ks: that's the term itself, unrelated to the movement and never capitalized [Sat May 10 2008] [23:05:33] Shirakawasuna your post refers to the discovery institute, but, they did not invent the concept [Sat May 10 2008] [23:05:34] Sara_Ks: the two words have been put together before. However, ID refers to the recent movement, and he clearly says so in that quotation. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:05:50] Sara_Ks: no, it refers to 'intelligent design'. Collins didn't even capitalize it there. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:05:55] Join Chesire_Cat_In_The_Hat has joined this channel (~n4ked1@adsl-75-49-4-216.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net). [Sat May 10 2008] [23:05:57] Sara_Ks: so, where's your evidence, exactly/ [Sat May 10 2008] [23:06:00] Mode SeekHim gives Chesire_Cat_In_The_Hat the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:06:08] evidence of which [Sat May 10 2008] [23:06:10] Sara_Ks: you've claimed that Collins has spoken to you and that he holds positions contrary to his statements. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:06:18] hi all [Sat May 10 2008] [23:06:25] Sara_Ks: should I expect evidence for any of this? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:06:32] or just more goalpost shifting? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:06:34] hiya Grey_Fox [Sat May 10 2008] [23:06:36] Sara_Ks this is what i quoted to you singularity is a region of space-time in which gravitational forces are so strong that even general relativity, the well-proven gravitational theory of Einstein, and the best theory we have for describing the structure of the universe, breaks down there.... [Sat May 10 2008] [23:06:43] http://www.pbs.org/wnet/hawking/strange/html/singular.html [Sat May 10 2008] [23:06:59] [22:13] Shirakawasuna There are MANY valid views of I.D. some which include evolution, hey, even a cellular origin of life, you have singled one view and posited that your objection applies to all [Sat May 10 2008] [23:07:02] [22:13] Sara_Ks: point me to one [Sat May 10 2008] [23:07:05] [22:13] Sara_Ks: we'll see if it's Intelligent Design or intelligent design. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:07:10] [22:15] Ok, one, theistic evolution as posited by Collins. His view is evolution and the creation of life is by God. Yet he holds to an evolutionary process [Sat May 10 2008] [23:07:19] ok, so we can clearly see that Collins does not hold to ID [Sat May 10 2008] [23:07:23] which, get this, isn't intelligent design [Sat May 10 2008] [23:07:38] you even capitalized it in that situation, which is the clearest way to delineate it from any other general useage of that adjective + noun [Sat May 10 2008] [23:07:38] (tm) [Sat May 10 2008] [23:07:59] and I've even used your own source, Wikipedia, to show how the term is used as such [Sat May 10 2008] [23:08:08] yet you shift the goalposts further when they don't back up your own position [Sat May 10 2008] [23:08:22] Part Homer-Simpson has left this channel. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:09:22] Join Homer-Simpson has joined this channel (ouch@2.drunk.2.drink.at). [Sat May 10 2008] [23:09:26] Mode SeekHim gives Homer-Simpson the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:09:31] Shirakawasuna: it can't just be a difference of ideas. It can't possibly be that you say one thing and she hears something else. It can't possibly be that you're being overly specific, there can't be any honest confusion it MUST be a dishonest argument on your part! [Sat May 10 2008] [23:09:37] hmm, not sure if that reference worked. goalposts can support a position? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:09:39] * Shirakawasuna kicks himself [Sat May 10 2008] [23:09:54] lol [Sat May 10 2008] [23:10:21] Quit Chesire_Cat_In_The_Hat has left this server (Ping timeout). [Sat May 10 2008] [23:11:33] Littlefoot Pot kettle black [Sat May 10 2008] [23:11:51] Sara_Ks: find one claim i did not support or withdraw your accusation. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:12:02] Littlefoot I posted it just a bit ago [Sat May 10 2008] [23:12:12] that's code for "I don't wanna" [Sat May 10 2008] [23:12:12] Sara_Ks and refuted it. would you like me to do so again? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:12:27] hey, you're back [Sat May 10 2008] [23:12:29] Sara_Ks this is what i quoted to you singularity is a region of space-time in which gravitational forces are so strong that even general relativity, the well-proven gravitational theory of Einstein, and the best theory we have for describing the structure of the universe, breaks down there.... [Sat May 10 2008] [23:12:33] I wrote a bunch up there, scrolly scrolly ^ [Sat May 10 2008] [23:12:33] http://www.pbs.org/wnet/hawking/strange/html/singular.html [Sat May 10 2008] [23:12:54] Littlefoot That was an answer, but not to my question [Sat May 10 2008] [23:12:58] * ratdog brb, reboot. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:13:19] Quit Sardaukar has left this server (Quit: INFIDELS!). [Sat May 10 2008] [23:13:27] donut holes are none fattening,,,its just the surrounding material that is [Sat May 10 2008] [23:13:48] Mode SeekHim sets the channel limit to 44 nicks. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:14:13] sigularities are whats in the middle of black holes [Sat May 10 2008] [23:14:14] Sara_Ks: and again, i am not denying that i stoped answering your question at some point. (mostly because i'd already answered it) . I am asking you for this alleged CLAIM of MINE that i did not support. NOT answering your questions is NOT the same as me making a claim. Support or withdraw madam [Sat May 10 2008] [23:14:28] I suppose I have to repeat myself, don't I? ;) [Sat May 10 2008] [23:14:45] Sara_Ks: should I expect evidence for any of this? [insert: your various claims concerning Collins, etc] [Sat May 10 2008] [23:14:56] I've shown how with both(!) of your sources, your claims break down [Sat May 10 2008] [23:15:01] both with Wikipedia and with Collins [Sat May 10 2008] [23:15:23] I suppose I might get some response to that, in which case I ask for the evidence [Sat May 10 2008] [23:15:33] btw i was away for a sec, was the gender of Shirakawasuna resolved? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:15:42] mobic: I'm a dude ;) [Sat May 10 2008] [23:15:44] Quit ratdog has left this server (Quit: deadhead). [Sat May 10 2008] [23:15:51] Shirakawasuna cool [Sat May 10 2008] [23:16:18] Littlefoot You claimed you knew what the singularity is, but you cannot describe it, tell me about it, how it operates. Its odd because most scientists don't claim that know what it is, they have some ideas though [Sat May 10 2008] [23:16:32] not that you seem female... :) or that there is anything wrong with that ;) [Sat May 10 2008] [23:16:44] [21:16] Sara_Ks: I know what it is but i don't understand what it is, neither do more than a thousand people. Time apparently did exist but it was shorter than plank time. It sounds nothing like the definition of god. God is a sentient omnipotent omnicient, moral being. NOTHING of that is implied in the singularity. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:16:49] I think Littlefoot is pretty clear there [Sat May 10 2008] [23:17:09] and scientists do know what it is [Sat May 10 2008] [23:17:21] it's a gravitational singularity represented by their models [Sat May 10 2008] [23:17:51] that doesn't mean they describe with certainty the black holes throughout the universe [Sat May 10 2008] [23:18:13] Sara_Ks: are you complaining that i'm being honest in saying i don't understand it, or are you claiming i never told you what it was? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:18:39] I imagine there's a significant amount of equivocation going on here [Sat May 10 2008] [23:18:57] saying you know what it is = describing it with detail and being intimately familiar with its real existence [Sat May 10 2008] [23:19:00] For the love of pete.. you say you know something, and you're lying. You admit you don't know something, and you're lying. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:19:09] that way we can find inconsistency in what you say ;) [Sat May 10 2008] [23:19:12] Littlefoot You never supported what it was [Sat May 10 2008] [23:19:24] yes he did [Sat May 10 2008] [23:19:26] http://www.pbs.org/wnet/hawking/strange/html/singular.html [Sat May 10 2008] [23:19:30] Sara_Ks: HOW many times do i need to quote the PBS page at you? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:19:48] Sara_Ks: you either need to be more verbose or acknowledge how that response is not extremely old and already answered. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:20:10] Shirakawasuna One problem there, not all think "God is a sentient omnipotent omnicient, moral being." [Sat May 10 2008] [23:20:23] oh? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:20:28] Sara_Ks: guavas cost $12 on Tuesdays [Sat May 10 2008] [23:20:49] Sara_Ks: which would have been a fine point to come up with 45 minutes ago. Now i'm looking for that apology [Sat May 10 2008] [23:21:23] Littlefoot What does that page tell me, nothing, it show what they say, but it doesnt support YOUR comment. What, are we supposed to list books and each read them? you need to support it [Sat May 10 2008] [23:22:03] huh? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:22:09] this is an entirely new comment, Sara_Ks [Sat May 10 2008] [23:22:10] Littlefoot I asked you direct questions that would have supported your view, you did not answer [Sat May 10 2008] [23:22:19] did you remember my accusation of goalpost shifting? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:22:27] Shirakawasuna He brought it up, not me [Sat May 10 2008] [23:22:29] whenever someone points out how you're wrong, you just move on without recognizing your mistake [Sat May 10 2008] [23:22:36] Join Fundamenta|ist has joined this channel (~Fundament@c-67-164-40-101.hsd1.ca.comcast.net). [Sat May 10 2008] [23:22:36] Sara_Ks: deflection [Sat May 10 2008] [23:22:36] Mode ChanServ gives channel operator privileges to Fundamenta|ist. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:22:39] Mode SeekHim gives Fundamenta|ist the permission to talk. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:22:42] Shirakawasuna Yeah, you shouldn't do it [Sat May 10 2008] [23:22:56] Sara_Ks: correct. So what does that entail if you actually do it? ;) [Sat May 10 2008] [23:22:59] Shirakawasuna I can claim the same as you [Sat May 10 2008] [23:23:10] Sara_Ks: yes, you can claim. Not legitimately, of course. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:23:18] Sara_Ks: I'm still waiting for any responses to my claims up there ^ [Sat May 10 2008] [23:23:20] Sara_Ks Once again, me not answering your questions (again) is NOT me not supporting my claims. You owe me an apology for your continuous shuffle [Sat May 10 2008] [23:23:24] Point is, I DID point out a claim he did not support. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:23:31] no you didn't [Sat May 10 2008] [23:23:42] Sara_Ks: after incorrectly pointing one out, and it's yet to be seen how serious this new one is. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:23:45] you pointed out a claim he did support [Sat May 10 2008] [23:23:53] Sara_Ks: and you don't seem to ahve recognized error on the earlier one. Do you accept that error or not? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:23:54] Grey_Fox thank you [Sat May 10 2008] [23:23:55] good evening channel [Sat May 10 2008] [23:24:00] hi Fundamenta|ist [Sat May 10 2008] [23:24:02] 'sup Fundamenta|ist [Sat May 10 2008] [23:24:08] Fundamenta|ist: are you still running commie-linux? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:24:13] how's the scaring going? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:24:22] His support was an answer to a question I didn't ask, if that is support, fine [Sat May 10 2008] [23:24:26] he supported it [Sat May 10 2008] [23:24:41] How are you all doing? [Sat May 10 2008] [23:24:45] Sara_Ks: are you talking to me? Because that doesn't exactly rebut any point I've made in the last 5 minutes. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:25:04] Fundamenta|ist: doin' fine [Sat May 10 2008] [23:25:13] Shirakawasuna I dunno, I don't know which point you are talking about [Sat May 10 2008] [23:25:15] Sara_Ks..... I don't need to support YOUR questions. I need to support MY claims. YOu said i didn't do that. I did. EVERYONE here saw me do it. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:25:38] Sara_Ks: well, you seem to have timestamps... check out anything within the last five minutes. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:25:38] Littlefoot My questions were of your claim, you did not support it, so I asked questions [Sat May 10 2008] [23:25:43] Sara_Ks: read it, quote it, contradict it. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:25:54] in case you'd like to somehow claim I never made a point ;) [Sat May 10 2008] [23:26:00] Notice -Sara_Ks- (private) cant, i had to clear the buffer [Sat May 10 2008] [23:26:22] Notice Sending notice "why is that in private?" to Sara_Ks. [Sat May 10 2008] [23:26:35] Sara_Ks: This is ridiculous. I'm sorry, but i can't respect anything you say or do at this point. . [Sat May 10 2008] [23:27:21] Join FrSam has joined this channel (~samlb@adsl-71-135-34-203.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net).