[17:58] does anyone do source modding with C# instead of C++? [17:59] <@Louti> !setinfo does anyone do source modding with C# instead of C++? [17:59] <@Louti> ftw. [17:59] eh? [17:59] Snigger. [17:59] C++ is absolutely foul [17:59] not really [17:59] <@Louti> lol. [18:00] c# is though [18:00] look how terribly buggy pretty much every modern game is when first released [18:00] <@Louti> C# is made with C++ [18:00] <+Skillet> :D [18:00] its not actually [18:00] <@Louti> oh rly? [18:00] <@Louti> oh sorry must be in asm 01[18:00] <@memzero[politics]> AnarkiNet, you might consider knowing what you're talking about before you spout false information [18:00] doubtful 01[18:00] <@memzero[politics]> the framework that powers C# IS written in C++. 14[18:00] memzero[politics], i've worked with C#/.NET for 4-5 years, so maybe i do? [18:00] AnarkiNet : are you suggesting writing games in C# would make them less buggy? [18:01] predcrab, yes [18:01] <@Louti> thats poor. 01[18:01] <@memzero[politics]> quite poor indeed [18:01] <@Louti> because actually it doesnt depend on the language you use. [18:01] <@Louti> but on the programmer. [18:01] obviously you realize programmers choose C++ for gaming because of its optimization [18:01] <@Louti> and for low level acces. [18:01] theres a reason people dont write full gaming engines in python [18:01] <+Ging> can I mod source in basic? [18:01] no, they choose C++ because thats what everyone else does [18:01] no, they dont [18:01] python is interpreted [18:01] C# is not 01[18:02] <@memzero[politics]> yes it is [18:02] c++ is dying for most applications 01[18:02] <@memzero[politics]> C# compiles to MSIL which IS interpreted [18:02] C# is around 95-105% of the speed of C++ [18:02] except in cases like games, operating systems 14[18:02] memzero[politics], wrong [18:02] lol [18:02] you guys are so funny [18:02] typical C++ programmers 01[18:02] <@memzero[politics]> hahaha [18:02] <@Louti> LOL 01[18:02] <@memzero[politics]> wow [18:02] well you go tell valve then [18:02] <@Louti> ok ok [18:02] guys guys [18:02] All programing languages suck. Except Lisp [18:02] and you know, every other game studio. [18:02] what if you need to program a multiplatform game? [18:02] <@Louti> lemme find the article of Microsoft explaining of C# works. 01[18:02] <@memzero[politics]> AnarkiNet, are you trying to tell me that my processor is natively running MSIL? [18:02] with this proprietary microsoft "language" [18:02] Andrew_ : what other platforms? [18:03] linux, mac [18:03] you mean like windows xp? [18:03] linux? whats that.. O_O [18:03] exactly [18:03] MSIL doesn't exist, its CIL (Common Intermediate Language) now, and its Just-In-Time converted to native instructions the first time it's run, then each time after that the native instructions are used [18:03] its also binary compatible with Mono [18:03] <@Louti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSIL whoups. [18:03] which runs on linux and OSX 01[18:03] <@memzero[politics]> then explain how reflection works, if running code is precompiled [18:03] <+Ging> Andrew: Mono [18:03] <+Ging> bah 03[18:04] * Looking up AnarkiNet user info... [18:04] the other operating systems shouldnt have to make their own system to be able to use programs writtem with a language [18:04] <+Ging> what? [18:04] http://www.sharpos.org/ [18:04] it should be able to be compiled natively [18:04] thats an OS written in C# all the way down to the boot loader [18:04] <+Ging> well, it can, with Mono [18:05] cute 01[18:05] <@memzero[politics]> actually, AnarkiNet, answer this: how is C# faster when it builds over twice as much "ASM" or IL as a C++ application? [18:05] I have a test os written in java. [18:05] running on virtual machine [18:05] doesnt mean it doesnt suck balls [18:06] <@Louti> i think he died on this question 01[18:06] <@memzero[politics]> yeah, I figured [18:06] <@Louti> http://www.nuclex.org/pages/csharp-vs-cxx-performance [18:06] no [18:06] i was playing warcraft 3 on other comp [18:07] another game that was horribly buggy when first released [18:07] and dont tell me that blizzard can't afford to hire top engine programmers [18:07] so you rewrote them in C# and they worked? [18:07] <@Louti> http://i.cmpnet.com/ddj/cuj/images/cuj0507bruckschlegel/0507bruckschlegelf18.jpeg [18:07] rewrote what? [18:07] war3 01[18:07] <@memzero[politics]> nicely done, Louti [18:07] no? [18:08] <@Louti> http://i.cmpnet.com/ddj/cuj/images/cuj0507bruckschlegel/0507bruckschlegelf18.jpeg WOW THANKS MONO 1900 MS compaired to C++ 761MS [18:08] <+Ging> c# doesn't guarantee less bugs, especially not in something as bloody complicated as a game 14[18:08] <@Louti> it just makes memory usage easier. [18:08] <@Louti> thats all. [18:08] Seriously. Where the hell did "It'd be less buggy!" come from? [18:08] <@Louti> "[02:59] look how terribly buggy pretty much every modern game is when first released" [18:08] <@omega> blah blah blah [18:09] Ah. [18:09] Ging, C# allows you to spend much more time developing your application and much less time worrying about whether your pointer math is correct, or running around fixing buffer overflow vulnerabilities, or the millions of other tedious things you have to do with C++ [18:09] Because, yannno, modern games aren't complex. [18:09] wanna twist the knife omega? 01[18:09] <@memzero[politics]> AnarkiNet: that's the smartest thing you've said since you got in here [18:09] Louti, a random graph with a bunch of numbers doesn't prove anything [18:09] Or are they just complex because C++ was involved? [18:10] <@Louti> AnarkiNet, no of course. [18:10] if you go by the common metric of 1 bug per 1k lines of source.... C++ will have more bugs by far than C# 14[18:10] <@Louti> ] <@memzero[politics]> actually, AnarkiNet, answer this: how is C# faster when it builds over twice as much "ASM" or IL as a C++ application? [18:10] <@Louti> but still, that proves it. 01[18:10] <@memzero[politics]> let me actually restate that slightly [18:10] <@Louti> http://i.cmpnet.com/ddj/cuj/images/cuj0507bruckschlegel/0507bruckschlegelf16.jpeg oly shit [18:10] <@Louti> C++ got owned [18:10] <@Louti> well only on windows. [18:10] thats also an extremely old version of mono [18:11] 1.0.6 was like a year and a half ago or something [18:11] or more 01[18:11] <@memzero[politics]> how is C# faster when the number of instructions the CLR generates from a C# application is usually twice or more what an equivalently-functional C++ program does? [18:11] <@Louti> http://i.cmpnet.com/ddj/cuj/images/cuj0507bruckschlegel/0507bruckschlegelf12.jpeg LOL CAN TELL [18:11] i hope the new veriosn is 10 times faster [18:12] <@Louti> And those guys wanted to run our daemon server on mono [18:12] <@Louti> HAHAH [18:12] mono is at 1.9.1 now, and it's performance is very close to microsoft's implementation, in some areas exceeding it [18:12] you guys are just biased [18:12] for some reason 01[18:12] <@memzero[politics]> you still haven't answered my question 01[18:12] <@memzero[politics]> [18:11] <@memzero[politics]> how is C# faster when the number of instructions the CLR generates from a C# application is usually twice or more what an equivalently-functional C++ program does? 14[18:12] memzero[politics], because your question doesn't really have anything to do with reality 01[18:12] <@memzero[politics]> okay, STOP> 01[18:12] <@memzero[politics]> . [18:13] It only has everything to do with reality. [18:13] <@Louti> LOL [18:13] HAMMER TIME [18:13] <@Louti> it couldnt be more close to reality 03[18:13] * memzero[politics] sets mode: +m 01[18:13] <@memzero[politics]> stop [18:13] <@Louti> its the deepest question 01[18:13] <@memzero[politics]> I'm ending this now 01[18:13] <@memzero[politics]> the speed of a program 01[18:13] <@memzero[politics]> is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL 03[18:13] * AnarkiNet (AnarkiNet@AnarkiNet.youre-currently-packeting-localhost.gamesurge) has left #hlcoders 01[18:13] <@memzero[politics]> to the number of instructions requi [18:13] <@Louti> HAHA 01[18:13] <@memzero[politics]> oh 01[18:13] <@memzero[politics]> that works too [18:13] <+Ging> haha [18:13] <@Louti> rage quit 03[18:13] * memzero[politics] sets mode: -m