So, the idea was to make a few major changes: 1. when an agent receives a stun request with a source IP/port which doesn't match the candidate, ice-09 has the agent do one of two things. If the address/port is totally new, the agent creates a new peer derived candidate. If it matches a different IP/port, it feeds a state update into that candidate pair. In both cases, the actual pair on which the request was received is invalidated. Instead of doing all of this, the idea is to simply update the remote IP address/port of the pair on which the request was received. This has the same net result as the existing ice-09 algorithm but is way simpler to specify. It was reassuring to hear from Tim Moore that this is how his implementation actually behaves. 2. the draft has a lot of confusion around transport address pairs vs. candidate pairs. I'm going to ditch what is current called candidate pair, and change the name of what is currently called transport address pair to candidate pair, and structure everything around that. This should boot out a bunch of terminology and complexity. 3. I think I can further unify tcp and udp processing The first of these three is the real big one. That should eliminate the entire section on peer derived candidates, how you compute and link them, computing these derived candidate IDs, and so on. It will also simplify the state machine, removing this whole miss/match bit that was recently added in. Now, the tradeoff that the group has to make is this. Philip has described, in his mail to the group here: http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mmusic/current/msg04314.html that there is a case where a peer-derived candidate would need to be paired with a different candidate from the one from which it was derived. With the simplification I propose, such a pairing could only be done via an explicit re-invite. I have argued that the simplification is worth the additional latency cost of a re-invite for covering what looks like a corner case. I think there was general consensus in the group that this tradeoff (simplifying the algorithm at the expense of requiring a re-invite in this corner case), was worth it. HTH, Jonathan R.