03:25:57pm Manami: If you're pissed off at me could you please say so rather than telling Brandon and making him feel that he has to lecture me and make the problem I am having worse? Thank you.   <-- repetition
Changed status to Online (03:31:15pm)
03:36:09pm Keakealani: I'm not mad at you, but if I'm perfectly honest, I'm getting a little annoyed that you're drawing conclusions
03:36:21pm Keakealani: or, bye?
03:36:33pm Manami: I'm actually telling you what I've been told BY Brandon.
03:36:49pm Keakealani: he told you that I'm pissed at you?
Changed status to Away: Recipient is out of ambit or in transit, and is not available. Record a message for delivery when ambit or transit status changes?"  (03:37:15pm)
03:37:16pm Manami: He told me that I am constantly making your life harder, and essentially being a selfish bitch, yes. 
03:38:08pm Keakealani: well, I'm not sure exactly what he said, and I'm not going to speak for him, but I would like to clear up the issues that I am having, many of which I have discussed with him
03:38:30pm Keakealani: I'm always happy to listen when you're having a crappy day or something's bothering you
03:38:58pm Keakealani: I like being there for you, and I hope that I'm able to offer some decent advice, or at least an open ear
03:39:48pm Keakealani: but lately I have been feeling like I'm not offering you much advice, or at least nothing that helps you
03:40:24pm Keakealani: and at the same time, I feel like the bulk of our conversations nowadays are the kind where there's some problem that's come up or something bad that happened
03:41:57pm Keakealani: I want to be there for you, but I don't want to /only/ be there when something negative happens
03:42:37pm Keakealani: and quite frankly, I do feel like recently the issues that I'm facing in my life are barely on your radar, if at all, and I'd just like the understanding that I have a lot on my plate and can't always be 100%
03:44:23pm Manami: Well, I would point out that you are awfully hard to catch lately, to be honest. I catch you once every few days, if that. And I stopped bugging the heck out of you by text because you kept telling me you were just busy. 
03:44:37pm Keakealani: well, I was
03:44:50pm Manami: So I stopped bugging you by text. 
03:44:54pm Keakealani: the last three weeks I was essentially pulling two jobs plus doing work for placement tests
03:45:18pm Manami: Because if I were running around like a chicken with my head cut off, texts at 3am would be the last thing I wanted
03:45:32pm Keakealani: but that's almost my point... I'm not sure you ever wanted to know what I was so busy with, as much as telling me about the crappy day you had at work
03:46:14pm Keakealani: but I don't know
03:46:18pm Keakealani: that's not even that huge an issue
03:47:12pm Keakealani: I mean, it would be nice to have a little back and forth about some of that... but I think the thing that concerns me is that... it seems like I'm often times hard pressed to even really be that supportive
03:48:34pm Keakealani: like, honestly?  I know what it's like to be really shy and horrible at talking to people and whatever... but I also feel like I really, really try to push myself to do something about it, and from my impressions, I'm not sure if you're able/willing to do that, yourself
03:48:45pm Keakealani: maybe it's that my shyness and your shyness aren't comparable
03:48:53pm Keakealani: and that you just aren't capable of doing any better
03:48:57pm Keakealani: and I buy that, certainly
03:49:36pm Keakealani: but at the same time, it's hard for me to relate when time and time again it just sounds like you sat on the side and didn't put yourself out there, and then you wonder why you didn't come home with phone numbers
03:50:10pm Keakealani: or, like, the cockroach phobia?  I know phobias are real, and I'm sure you really are having serious issues with it, but it's still a little funny to me because I can't imagine being so afraid of roaches
03:50:37pm Keakealani: but then when I take it more lightly and try to be a little more logical about it, you just take that as people not being sympathetic
03:51:57pm Keakealani: I'm sorry I'm not always sympathetic, but I try, at least most of the time
03:52:29pm Manami: You're not the only one to have laughed at me about it. Which is where the annoyance came in. Not directed AT you, directed equally at all the people who did so. I don't know what I -can- do about it. As I pointed out when you suggested getting help - I don't think that's a language barrier I could fix. 
03:54:06pm Manami: But it IS making it awfully difficult to function. One was in front of my door the other night and I didn't want to go inside. Shooing it away, I think it landed on me when I came home the other night and I squealed and it was like 11:30 at night, so I'm sure my neighbors were annoyed. 
03:54:27pm Manami: er.   Okay, the grammar there sucks but I think you'll get it.
03:54:32pm Keakealani: yeah.
03:54:35pm Keakealani: I know, it's difficult
03:54:56pm Manami: I don;t understand why I find them terrifying. I just do.
03:54:59pm Keakealani: but at the same time... like, if you tried hard enough, maybe you could set up an appointment via skype or something with someone back home?
03:55:07pm Keakealani: it's not the same, but I don't know
03:55:32pm Keakealani: if it's causing so much of an issue that you can't go into your door at night, I think it's something where you have to do something about it or move away from Japan
03:55:41pm Manami: The only worry I have with that is the cost.  Since as I recall, therapists, especially with no insurance, are probably pretty expensive.
03:55:47pm Keakealani: that's true.
03:55:55pm Manami: That's crossed my mind - that roaches might be the one thing that makes me move home.
03:55:56pm Keakealani: it's not the ideal situation
03:55:59pm Manami: Which is pretty sad.
03:56:06pm Manami: Like, in the pathetic way
03:56:22pm Keakealani: but it's also not the ideal solution to have this issue and not do anything about it except complain
03:57:19pm Manami: Except I have gone through any solutions I can think of in my head and none really seemed to work. The only thing I have left is move to Hokkaido, and I'm not sure that would work
03:57:52pm Keakealani: yes, that's kind of a problem
03:58:27pm Keakealani: I don't know, though. I just don't think it's productive to even discuss it, because we'll just rehash the same things over and over again
03:58:44pm Manami: Except that my thought was someone else with a brain might think of something I had missed.
03:59:02pm Manami: I'm not claiming imperfection here. 
03:59:11pm Manami: or well... i am
03:59:15pm Manami: gah, I need to wake up
03:59:51pm Manami: I'm not claiming perfection here.  Better.   Maybe I missed something completely obvious that would start to fix it. 
04:00:53pm Keakealani: well, then in the mean time, you're going to have to deal with people not being helpful or even all that sympathetic, because to the rest of us, being that scared of cockroaches is a bit silly.
04:02:27pm Manami: Which I think is kind of mean.  For example, I don't mock my dad for not getting on a plane because he's afraid of heights. 
04:06:31pm Keakealani: I dunno, I honestly think I'd mock that, too... but that's just me, and I am a little mean spirited, I guess
04:06:35pm Manami: And when it's something I already feel stupid for, myself....  making me feel stupider isn't helpful. 
04:07:34pm Manami: I complain when I'm stuck in the backseat for three days as we drive to Florida, but.... he's afraid. It wouldn't really change anything to mock him, and it's pretty mean. 
04:08:31pm Manami: My boss's wife came up with the gem, "OH MY GOD, why did you come to Japan?!"     Um. Because I totally knew roaches were here before I came. Except... I didn't. 
04:09:38pm Keakealani: well, and that does bring up the other thing... I'm not entirely sure you were completely prepared to go to Japan, and maybe these kinds of things needed to be addressed before making the move
04:10:25pm Manami: I didn't know I was afraid of roaches then. I didn't know roaches were here. It's not like the AEON info packet goes, "Oh, by the way, there are roaches. Is that okay?"
04:10:51pm Manami: Like I said, I am used to roaches only exist in dilapadated apartments where you never clean and live in disgusting filth.
04:11:11pm Manami: not sitting outside my front door.
04:12:11pm Manami: I talked to another AEON teacher actually, the other night.  Asked her if she had her can of roach spray yet.  She said "WHAT?!?!"  She didn't know they were here either. So it's not like I'm alone in that. 
04:12:49pm Keakealani: mm... this is something where I will defer to you, as I've never lived on the mainland
04:12:56pm Keakealani: I guess maybe that really is the case
04:13:34pm Manami: It's not in the south - Cat had them all the time in Louisiana.
04:13:48pm Manami: In the south they are apparently common (another thing I didn't really know)
04:13:57pm Keakealani: well, they certainly are here
04:13:59pm Manami: But in the midwest, they -aren't- 
04:14:06pm Manami: So I really had no way of knowing this.
04:14:28pm Manami: Unless I had like, asked at the interview "Um, so, are there roaches?" but who thinks of something like that?
04:14:36pm Keakealani: but I guess... I sort of feel like, my comparison is like, if I were moving to somewhere with cold weather, I would have wanted to do a lot of research about what to expect, like ice or something?
04:14:57pm Keakealani: so I kind of think, the same thing applies if you're moving to a more tropical climate than you're used to
04:15:12pm Keakealani: I don't know
04:15:30pm Manami: Weather is one thing. Bugs are another.
04:15:53pm Keakealani: why, though? bugs are almost always seasonal outside of the tropics
04:16:39pm Manami: It's not something that crossed my mind. And like I said - obviously I'm not the only one not to think of something like that, because other people are surprised too.
04:17:19pm Keakealani: well, it didn't, then, but I dunno, I'm not sure that's entirely the point
04:17:33pm Manami: Probably not.
04:18:17pm Keakealani: I really don't want to be all bitchy and stuff (although admittedly today has been a bit rough so maybe I have a shorter fuse than usual) but I do really want to figure out what it is that's causing issues
04:18:23pm Manami: the point is more that people seem to think it's my fault for either not knowing they were here beforehand, or being afraid of them and not being able to explain it.   Neither of which I think are actually my fault.  
04:18:37pm Keakealani: no, they're not
04:19:00pm Keakealani: but even if they're not, I still fail to understand why people being less than sensitive about it is a reason to post a public facebook note complaining about it
04:19:53pm Manami: It was more the combination of everything. I think if it were just the roaches thing, I'd be able to laugh it off. But it's not just that, and it's not just one person - obviously.
04:20:01pm Manami: And it's not a public note, anyway.  
04:20:10pm Keakealani: okay, well.
04:20:17pm Keakealani: public as in, people other than you can see it
04:22:19pm Manami: I would say that falls a bit towards the "my journal" end of things. 
04:23:03pm Manami: And again, it's not just roaches. It's problems being worsened. Like, the friend who told me the guy must have the wrong person or be drunk/high. 
04:23:26pm Keakealani: well, the roach thing serves as an example
04:23:40pm Manami: Yup, that's totally what I need to hear when I'm going, "....does this mean what I think it means?!"    
04:23:44pm Manami: \Well, it does.
04:24:40pm Manami: I already feel stupid for being so scared of them. I already feel bad about it. I already feel like an idiot. Whatever you want to say. So being mocked... kind of makes it worse, don't you think?
04:24:41pm Keakealani: there, again, it sounds like (at least from my outsider's perspective) that you're having issues with a friend, but not really doing anything about it, and letting it get to you until it causes other issues, and then not doing anything about it, and eventually just venting.
04:26:53pm Manami: Also, to rewind slightly since it won't get out of my head otherwise... I love how Japan used to be a "really awesome opportunity" or something like that, and now maybe I "wasn't ready to go"
04:27:21pm Keakealani: well, maybe you weren't
04:27:41pm Keakealani: it's still an awesome opportunity, but if you take an opportunity without being prepared, you have to take the consequences
04:27:53pm Keakealani: even if you didn't know that you needed to prepare in such a way
04:33:17pm Manami: And no, I did not just sit there in the bar.  I did talk to people. It's just a lot harder for me than it is for Cat, and I am slightly jealous of  her.
04:34:17pm Keakealani: but then again, I can't really help you any more than to say "try harder" or "stop being so jealous"
04:36:44pm Keakealani: and I guess, it still makes me wonder if you just want to vent to someone or you really want to have a conversation
04:37:41pm Keakealani: I'm never quite sure if you make the distinction that while friends are there to help you through the tough times, they're also people too, and they also want to have someone to talk to for that end as well
04:38:14pm Manami: Yes, because I wasn't texting you all the time when you were in the hospital, concerned about you and you told me continuously not to worry.
04:38:36pm Manami: Because I didn't usually text you randomly when I hadn't seen you in a few days asking if stuff was up.
04:38:54pm Manami: Because I don't tend to ask if you want to talk about stuff and get told "No, not really"
04:39:04pm Manami: or "Well, I already talked to Brandon, it's okay"
04:39:14pm Keakealani: man, am I really that bad?
04:39:15pm Keakealani: god.
04:39:18pm Manami: Yup, that totally makes me a bad friend.
04:39:52pm Manami: Yup, I totally don't care about you AT ALL.
04:40:35pm Manami: Because I don't answer your "It's not a big deal, don't worry" with "....but that's what friends DO!" 
04:41:32pm Keakealani: ugh, maybe I really am just being bitchy and selfish
04:42:09pm Manami: If I can have my moment of bitter, it sounds like you've been talkinjg to Brandon too much. (In my opinion. I realize, you're still friends and I don't begrudge you that.)
04:42:34pm Manami: Because this is nearly a carbon copy of what he was yelling at me for, that I don't care about you at all. 
04:43:18pm Manami: Which is, quite honestly, what finally pissed me off bad enough to tell him basically to go fuck himself, and block him
04:43:41pm Keakealani: well, maybe that's true
04:43:51pm Keakealani: but I can't help but think that regardless of whom I talk to
04:44:01pm Keakealani: my personal feelings are still the same
04:44:36pm Keakealani: I have been feeling recently like you spend far too much time being mad at people and being upset
04:44:52pm Keakealani: and it's just difficult to handle that, on top of all the things going on in my life
04:45:54pm Keakealani: perhaps that's a fault of mine, that I'm putting too much on my plate
04:46:07pm Keakealani: that's probably somewhat true
04:46:32pm Keakealani: I don't know.
04:47:21pm Keakealani: I really don't think I want to be subject to so much self-pity when I'm not in the state of mind where I can deal with it
04:47:39pm Manami: I'm just angry at, mostly Brandon, for sticking his nose in clearly labeling me not as a friend, but still trying to tell me how to run my life AND telling me that I'm a horrible, horrible, BAD friend when I really don't think I actually AM. 
04:48:14pm Manami: (And I say clearly labeling me not a friend because his email started something like, "I know you're having problems, but I don't want to see my friends hurt because of it." )
04:49:12pm Manami: Yes, his email(s) pushed me from upset to seething mad and I'm still there.
04:49:42pm Keakealani: and I suppose now wouldn't be a good time to suggest he get added to this chat and hear it himself, huh?
04:49:49pm Manami: It's AIM
04:49:56pm Manami: And no, that wouldn't work, because I blocked him
04:50:01pm Manami: He's heard it, trust me.
04:50:10pm Manami: Or some form of it.
04:51:45pm Keakealani: well, at any rate
04:51:50pm Keakealani: I'm not sure where this is going
04:52:16pm Keakealani: but I think for the time being we should give it a break and deal with our own lives separately for a while
04:52:21pm Manami: if you're all that interested, this is the last email I sent him: http://pastebin.ca/1493269   If you're not, don't worry about it. But I'm done with him and his ridiculously big head. New topic.
04:53:03pm Manami: You know what.... fine. But could you perhaps stop considering me this horrible awful friend, because that does kind of piss me off. 
04:53:32pm Manami: Because I don't think I deserve that.
04:53:32pm Keakealani: that's kind of exactly what I wanted to avoid
04:53:41pm Keakealani: I don't think you're a horrible awful friend
04:54:00pm Keakealani: i think you're a perfectly good friend who needs to address some things about herself before we can have a conversation that makes sense
04:54:12pm Keakealani: right now things are unbalanced for some reason
04:54:23pm Keakealani: I'll take at least half the fault, I'm sure I've been pretty distant recently
04:54:25pm Manami: Well, that seems to be the impression I'm being given being told, not even just from you but from Brandon too that I apparently don't care about you.
04:54:34pm Keakealani: and I know I haven't made much on an effort to try to talk to you
04:55:15pm Manami: He, by the way, defined "a conversation" for me.  Which I'm glad you didn't do as well. 
04:55:41pm Keakealani: but at the same time, right now I have other things in my life that take precedent over hearing my friends' problems, and since I can't juggle both of those, obviously, I'm pointing out that in order for me to maintain some semblance of sanity, I need to detach myself from something
04:56:07pm Keakealani: and at this point, since I clearly can't detach myself from things like my family, the next thing is the friend stuff
04:57:16pm Manami: I'd also point out that the last conversation we had was me being afraid of cockroaches which REALLY is not THAT emotional.  It's just me being really freaked out. 
04:57:48pm Keakealani: yes, true
04:58:11pm Keakealani: but to be blunt, it's a pain not to be able to say "you know what? that's silly, get over it" without you getting mad
04:58:24pm Manami: But seriously. I'm not an ogre. I actually, usually, take some sort of pride in how much I value my friends.
04:58:55pm Manami: So to have Brandon, who once literally told me he sees friendship as transient, tell me I suck at being a friend?  Pissed me off. 
04:59:35pm Manami: Especially when he seems to be telling it to me because you'd said so to him.
05:00:59pm Keakealani: I don't know. He probably used stronger words than I would have, but right now I'm closer aligned with his point of view than yours
05:01:40pm Manami: You know what? That's fine, then. I'll stop annoying you by worrying about you, since that's the hallmark of a bad friend.
05:02:07pm Keakealani: I am still not calling you a bad friend
05:02:22pm Keakealani: I'm saying that my position in life doesn't allow for me to derive value out of this relationship
05:02:30pm Keakealani: maybe that's the same thing, I don't know.
05:02:35pm Manami: That's sweet.  
05:02:39pm Keakealani: I know.
05:02:46pm Keakealani: I couldn't think of a more tactful way to say that
05:02:56pm Keakealani: but at the same time, I'm pretty sure you'll be pissed no matter what I say
05:02:58pm Manami: You sound like him, you know.
05:03:02pm Keakealani: maybe I do
05:03:17pm Keakealani: but if that's the case, then isn't it best we part ways rather than have the falling-out you did with him?
05:03:20pm Manami: "I don't need you anymore, so whatever."
05:03:37pm Manami: Yeah, because you've seen how much I like doing that. 
05:03:51pm Manami: I LIVE to lose friends. I LOVE it. 
05:04:07pm Manami: I throw a party every time.
05:04:34pm Keakealani: well, whether or not it's your conscious actions or something uncontrollable, you seem to be pretty good at alienating people to their breaking point
05:04:51pm Keakealani: either it's a horrible and debilitating handicap, or you're not who you think you are.
05:05:11pm Manami: Yeah, because I haven't had my best friend for 12 years. 
05:05:28pm Manami: I'm angry with her now, but we haven't been friends for 12+ years or anything.
05:05:35pm Manami: Obviously I alienate people.
05:05:47pm Keakealani: okay, maybe not people in general, but me, and Brandon
05:05:59pm Manami: Brandon's an asshole.
05:06:17pm Keakealani: then so am I, that's fine.
05:06:32pm Manami: You, I thought, had a head that wasn't the size of Montana.
05:07:07pm Manami: But if you're going to buy into the "Internet friends don't count" and "I don't need you anymore" crap he spews, have fun. 
05:07:24pm Keakealani: okay, I will.