01[20:50] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Rebel, 01[20:51] <&ConeBone|AWAY> So CnG is really gearing up for war with Purple within the next 2 months or so 01[20:51] <&ConeBone|AWAY> If they get a CB they are running with it. 01[20:51] <&ConeBone|AWAY> So says Bobby [20:57] <&Rebel_Virginia> Interesting. 03[20:57] * wentworth[NSO] (chatzilla@coldfront-2B8ACC3E.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #lwoffice 03[20:57] * ChanServ sets mode: +oa wentworth[NSO] wentworth[NSO] [20:57] <&Rebel_Virginia> I'm getting Went in here. 04[20:57] <&Rebel_Virginia> <&ConeBone|AWAY> So CnG is really gearing up for war with Purple within the next 2 months or so 04[20:57] <&Rebel_Virginia> <&ConeBone|AWAY> If they get a CB they are running with it. 04[20:57] <&Rebel_Virginia> <&ConeBone|AWAY> So says Bobby 01[20:57] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Obviously this stays in the Peace council and that's it [20:57] <&Rebel_Virginia> Aye. [20:57] <&wentworth[NSO]> totally. [20:58] <&Rebel_Virginia> This is why I get went in here. [20:58] <&Rebel_Virginia> We need to discuss it here. 01[20:58] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Yeah, so what do you guys think. [20:58] <&Rebel_Virginia> I'll let Lint decide if he wants to let the DC know. [20:58] <&Rebel_Virginia> I think this is an issue. [20:58] <&wentworth[NSO]> I was talking to tithan at Vn earlier and he was thinking the same thing [20:58] <&Rebel_Virginia> That purple should wage a war on CnG? [20:58] <&Rebel_Virginia> Or that CnG was gunning for purple? [20:59] <&wentworth[NSO]> That the general thought was CnG was going to pull something [20:59] <&Rebel_Virginia> Yeah, seems like. 01[20:59] <&ConeBone|AWAY> So I'd personally not like to see us sign with both sides only to have to drop one side immediately after [20:59] <&Rebel_Virginia> This could be a problem. [20:59] <&wentworth[NSO]> I personally think the Stickmen issue was a trap [20:59] <&Rebel_Virginia> Aye. [20:59] <&Rebel_Virginia> Indeed. [20:59] 7,1[20:59:46] * -HIGHLIGHT- Government highlight in #NSO by kerschbs|gato [20:59] <&Rebel_Virginia> Anyway, options. 01[20:59] <&ConeBone|AWAY> And it puts us in a shitty situation with FB being close to CnG [21:00] <&Rebel_Virginia> We can either wait for CnG to roll purple, and then sign with purple. [21:00] <&Rebel_Virginia> They'll be sure to want powerful friends after that. [21:00] <&Rebel_Virginia> Or we could try and persuade CnG to not roll purple, which we I doubt we have the influence to do. [21:01] <&Rebel_Virginia> Perhaps through Polar or STA, but I doubt it. CnG wants to do something. They're bored. [21:01] <&Rebel_Virginia> We do have a third option. 01[21:01] <&ConeBone|AWAY> I agree that we won't be able to, at least not creating some strain within FB. [21:01] <&Rebel_Virginia> We could pass this information along. [21:01] <&wentworth[NSO]> I think that is probably the best route. Signing with a purple alliance before that will not be a good thing. And I dont think we have that kind of influence either. [21:01] <&Rebel_Virginia> Right, so wait until after CnG rolls purple to sign with them? [21:02] <&wentworth[NSO]> or you are right, we could pass it along. Make it a good fight 01[21:02] <&ConeBone|AWAY> That's how I'd want to do it, or at least until it's clear it won't happen in the immediate future [21:02] <&Rebel_Virginia> Well, when CnG rolls purple, I wouldn't be surprised if Polar and STA get involved. [21:03] <&Rebel_Virginia> Now, we could join them and improve relations with CnG that way, or we could sit it out. CnG may not like it, but FB would understand, no? [21:03] <&Rebel_Virginia> Really, how's this going to change our plans? 01[21:04] <&ConeBone|AWAY> If we have a treaty with LOST, we won't be able to sit out [21:04] <&Rebel_Virginia> Right. [21:04] <&wentworth[NSO]> well if we jump in on CnG side, we can kiss our relations with Purple goodbye. same any way you look at it if we were to enter [21:04] <&Rebel_Virginia> Yes, we're definately going to have to adapt our plan. [21:05] <&Rebel_Virginia> Should we just scrap purple? 01[21:05] <&ConeBone|AWAY> If we remain respectful throughout the whole thing and make it clear we are honoring treaties I think we might be able to pull it off. 01[21:05] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Or no? 04[21:05] <&wentworth[NSO]> Well, that could happen Cone, purple should know all about that situation, especially after the last war [21:06] <&Rebel_Virginia> Can we be sure that purple would not harbor a grudge, even if we are honoring treaties? 01[21:06] <&ConeBone|AWAY> As long as we don't make it personal. [21:06] <&Rebel_Virginia> I mean, I know I would see it as us just supporting a bullshit war against them. 01[21:06] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Although, maybe we can alter the type of treaty we sign with LOST [21:06] <&Rebel_Virginia> Even though we know it is bullshit. 01[21:06] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Maybe start with a PIAT 01[21:07] <&ConeBone|AWAY> It shows that we are starting relations and would make sense 01[21:07] <&ConeBone|AWAY> that we don't just jump into a military one [21:07] <&Rebel_Virginia> Right. 01[21:07] <&ConeBone|AWAY> and then after the war we can upgrade and sign with both [21:07] <&Rebel_Virginia> Does anybody know what Polar and STA think of purple? [21:07] <&wentworth[NSO]> I think it would all depend on how we were to carry it out. If we declared and then trolled them on the OWF and all that shit, there would be a grudge. however if we can keep our members cool and tactful, and cordial through the whole thing, I dont see a grudge forming 01[21:08] <&ConeBone|AWAY> I really don't know RV. [21:08] <&wentworth[NSO]> i dont either to be honest 01[21:08] <&ConeBone|AWAY> It would be like our war with ML. There was nothing but fun and respect between our alliances in public and in private. [21:09] <&Rebel_Virginia> Right. [21:09] <&wentworth[NSO]> exactly. We had the same thing with Int during Karma. [21:09] <&Rebel_Virginia> Well, I don't know the mindset of purple alliances. [21:09] <&Rebel_Virginia> I do know how I would feel though. 01[21:09] <&ConeBone|AWAY> However, I personally think signing a PIAT with LOST and just waiting it out until it becomes more clear one way or another would be the best route. [21:09] <&Rebel_Virginia> Right. [21:09] <&Rebel_Virginia> Agreed. [21:10] <&Rebel_Virginia> Went, how do you think purple would feel if we went to war with them honoring treaties? [21:11] <&Rebel_Virginia> Actually, hold on a minute. [21:11] <&wentworth[NSO]> I personally think that as long as we remained tactful and honorable throughout, no trolling etc, we could pull through it looking good [21:11] <&Rebel_Virginia> CN is still dominated by moralists from the Karma cock rub. [21:11] <&Rebel_Virginia> Went, great. [21:11] <&Rebel_Virginia> But yes, SF and Citadel and their friends are pretty much the moralists. [21:12] <&Rebel_Virginia> Now, if we get CnG to do this, we'll have Citadel and SF openly pissed at them. [21:12] <&Rebel_Virginia> Even if they have a "valid" CB, people will still know the war is bullshit. [21:12] <&wentworth[NSO]> yeah. plus i assume we would probably give the white peace we always do so i think it woeks out in our favor [21:12] <&Rebel_Virginia> Though they most likely will not act, they'll remember it. [21:12] <&Rebel_Virginia> We could use that to our advantage in playing people. [21:13] <&Rebel_Virginia> Using the newfound hate that shoud arise. [21:13] <&Rebel_Virginia> Problem is, we'd have to compete with SF and Cit who would without a doubt move in on purple for allies against CnG. [21:13] <&Rebel_Virginia> Unless we can arrange something. 01[21:13] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Do we want people pissed at CnG? 01[21:13] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Remember, with CnG is FB [21:13] <&wentworth[NSO]> true. but we have an upperhand by already talking with them all 01[21:14] <&ConeBone|AWAY> they go hand and hand and we can't drop FB without catching all kinds of shit. [21:15] <&Rebel_Virginia> FB is keeping us alive. [21:15] <&Rebel_Virginia> We can't leave FB in the foreseeable future. [21:15] <&wentworth[NSO]> true. we dont have a shortage of people who want to roll us 04[21:15] <&Rebel_Virginia> ConeBone|AWAY - I do believe someone was suggesting trying to get Citadel focused on rolling CnG. [21:16] <&Rebel_Virginia> Honestly, I think whoever suggested that is way off. 01[21:16] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Yeah, I definitely agree. [21:16] <&Rebel_Virginia> Considering that STA and Polar are never leaving CnG, and Polar has its own web of allies. [21:16] <&Rebel_Virginia> I think trying to turn Cit's attention towards SF would be smarter. 01[21:16] <&ConeBone|AWAY> That ^ 01[21:17] <&ConeBone|AWAY> All of that [21:17] <&Rebel_Virginia> But yes, either way, SF and Cit will be pissed off at CnG following this war. [21:17] <&Rebel_Virginia> And I am pretty sure there is no changing their mind. 01[21:17] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Depends on the CB 01[21:17] <&ConeBone|AWAY> and how it develops 01[21:17] <&ConeBone|AWAY> IMO [21:17] <&Rebel_Virginia> I presume it will most likely be crap. [21:17] <&wentworth[NSO]> knowing how much they want it, the CB will be weak [21:17] <&Rebel_Virginia> Purple doesn't strike me as the team to try anything. [21:17] <&Rebel_Virginia> It'll be like the CBs NPO used on GATO. Something weak. [21:18] <&Rebel_Virginia> But yes, purple may want revenge following this war. [21:18] <&Rebel_Virginia> Meaning they'd go with either Cit or SF, which I do not like. 04[21:18] <&Rebel_Virginia> Cone, is this war definately going to happen eventually you think? 01[21:19] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Bobby seems supremely confident that it will. Enough to bring it up with me without me asking about it. [21:19] <&wentworth[NSO]> They would go with SF if you ask me. Most are not huge fans of Citadel [21:19] <&Rebel_Virginia> Right. [21:19] <&Rebel_Virginia> Then we're going to have to come up with a plan to make sure they don't go with SF. [21:19] <&Rebel_Virginia> And either come with us, or go neutral. [21:20] <&Rebel_Virginia> Anyway, someone mentioned (was it Lint or Cheyenne) that he didn't want us married to CnG. [21:20] <&Rebel_Virginia> Well, let's face it, we are. [21:20] <&Rebel_Virginia> So long as STA and Polar are with CnG, so are we. [21:20] <&Rebel_Virginia> It is just the simple reality. [21:20] <&wentworth[NSO]> Thats gonna be tricky. They are still butthurt about TOP rolling almost all of purple. How would we go about changing that mindframe [21:20] <&Rebel_Virginia> And quite frankly, CnG policy, as evidenced tonight due to our new information, will greatly affect our own. [21:21] <&Rebel_Virginia> Went, I have no idea. [21:21] <&Rebel_Virginia> But I greatly fear SF getting all of purple on their side following this war. [21:21] <&Rebel_Virginia> But that may simply be what happens. 01[21:22] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Yeah it might end up [21:22] <&Rebel_Virginia> And SF and Cit together, we won't stand a chance since they'll be gunning for CnG afterwards. 01[21:22] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Purple and SF/Cit against CnG, FB, and whoever else we can get along with us. [21:22] <&Rebel_Virginia> And guess what, we'll be in their line of sight. 01[21:23] <&ConeBone|AWAY> But, if we can draw IRON and NPO on our side 04[21:23] <&Rebel_Virginia> Cone, Genesis, AZTEC, Blunity, and possibly TCP. [21:23] <&Rebel_Virginia> And yes, perhaps NPO and IRON. [21:23] <&Rebel_Virginia> Though IRON will most likely be torn between either us or TOP if we manage to treaty them. [21:23] <&wentworth[NSO]> I think IRON can be done soon. Heft was telling me we should be able to get something through relatively soon [21:23] <&wentworth[NSO]> of course, your right it hinges on TOP [21:23] <&Rebel_Virginia> But yes, we're going to have to do something about Cit and SF's web then. [21:24] <&Rebel_Virginia> Will Umbrella and FOK choose MK or TOP? [21:24] <&Rebel_Virginia> FOK I can see going with TOP, however, iFOK would be just as guilty for pushing that war. [21:24] <&Rebel_Virginia> So I don't know. 01[21:24] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Lets come back to the present, we're speculating a year in advance [21:24] <&Rebel_Virginia> Right. 01[21:25] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Just for a moment to figure out what we should do now. [21:25] <&Rebel_Virginia> How's this relate to the present then? 01[21:25] <&ConeBone|AWAY> I saw we sign the PIAT with LOST and maintain good relations with purpl. [21:25] <&Rebel_Virginia> That will work for now, at least. 01[21:25] <&ConeBone|AWAY> and see how the war goes and what comes after it. [21:25] <&wentworth[NSO]> have to maintain those relations. [21:25] <&Rebel_Virginia> Right. [21:25] <&Rebel_Virginia> Especially if we get involved in the war. [21:25] <&wentworth[NSO]> if we cut them and come back after the war, it would look set up 01[21:25] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Then we can start to see how it develops and plan based off that. 01[21:27] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Of course this will have to all be run by Lint 03[21:27] * Retrieving #lwoffice modes... 03[21:28] * ConeBone|AWAY sets mode: +s [21:28] <&wentworth[NSO]> yes of course [21:28] <&Rebel_Virginia> Yeah. [21:28] <&Rebel_Virginia> I don't see this being so far off though. [21:28] <&Rebel_Virginia> One year. [21:28] <&Rebel_Virginia> You said you see the purple war happening in at least two months, right? 01[21:29] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Bobby said they will probably start looking for a CB in 2 months [21:29] <&Rebel_Virginia> Well, they'll find one if they look for one. [21:29] <&Rebel_Virginia> Believe me, it doesn't take long to make on up. [21:30] <&Rebel_Virginia> And after the war is finished, or even after it starts. [21:30] <&Rebel_Virginia> SF and Citadel will get moving. They'll have found their excuse to start making things happening. [21:30] <&Rebel_Virginia> I don't see them dragging their feet. 01[21:30] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Yeah they haven't even gotten along with CnG and will probably be looking for an excuse. [21:31] <&Rebel_Virginia> Exactly. 01[21:31] <&ConeBone|AWAY> ever* not even [21:31] <&Rebel_Virginia> So what we do is try to maintain good relations with purple, even if we do go to war? [21:31] <&Rebel_Virginia> Yeah, that's probably all we can do. [21:32] <&wentworth[NSO]> yeah ii think thats about all we can do [21:32] <&Rebel_Virginia> Yeah. [21:32] <&Rebel_Virginia> Well, one of us can inform Lint when he gets on then. 01[21:32] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Yeah, it allows us to keep face. 01[21:32] <&ConeBone|AWAY> What if after the war, we were to sign with some of purple and strattle the fence? [21:33] <&Rebel_Virginia> Well, I presume if we managed to do that we could possibly get purple on our side. [21:33] <&Rebel_Virginia> But it'd take a major effort. 01[21:33] <&ConeBone|AWAY> And we go to war for FB but not for CnG and we defend whoever we are allied on Purple. [21:33] <&Rebel_Virginia> And we'd likely need multiple treaties. [21:33] <&Rebel_Virginia> If we want to get all of purple that is. [21:33] <&wentworth[NSO]> anyone logging this convo? I dont see staddling the fence as being something bad as long as we fully dedicate to getting it done. [21:34] <&Rebel_Virginia> Yes, I am logging. [21:34] <&Rebel_Virginia> I always log. [21:34] <&Rebel_Virginia> But yes, we would go to war for Frostbite. [21:34] <&Rebel_Virginia> Perhaps we'd be able to hit an alliance that wasn't necessarily on purple. 01[21:34] <&ConeBone|AWAY> I don't mean to get them on our side, just for us to remain "neutral" except in defense of FB [21:34] <&Rebel_Virginia> An off color ally perhaps. [21:34] <&wentworth[NSO]> good call Rebel. i think that would be best 01[21:35] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Yeah, I think we could get this to work. [21:35] <&Rebel_Virginia> Well, then we can avoid spoiling relations with purple over this. 01[21:35] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Anyway it goes, we'll just have to be adaptive over the next few months. [21:35] <&Rebel_Virginia> We just have to stop them from joining with SF to get revenge then. [21:36] <&Rebel_Virginia> But yes, think we ought to pass an anonymous tip to purple, telling them to watch it? 01[21:36] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Will we be able to stop that? [21:36] <&Rebel_Virginia> I don't know. 01[21:36] <&ConeBone|AWAY> I don't think so. 01[21:36] <&ConeBone|AWAY> It doesn't serve us at all. [21:37] <&Rebel_Virginia> Alright then. [21:37] <&Rebel_Virginia> They probably already know. 01[21:37] <&ConeBone|AWAY> If we give a heads up and we refuse to sign and don't help they will be pissed 01[21:37] <&ConeBone|AWAY> And if CnG finds out, they'll be pissed [21:37] <&Rebel_Virginia> Good point. [21:37] <&Rebel_Virginia> Yeah, we know nothing. [21:37] <&wentworth[NSO]> it is unfortunate, from what i see half of them dont see it coming [21:37] <&wentworth[NSO]> which i dont understand, its clear as day [21:38] <&Rebel_Virginia> Wait, purple hates Citadel, right? [21:38] <&Rebel_Virginia> Especially TOP? [21:38] <&wentworth[NSO]> yes [21:38] <&wentworth[NSO]> because TOP peed in their cereal in the karma war [21:39] <&Rebel_Virginia> If Cit/SF wins a war against CnG/FB, they will be living in a world dominated by TOP. [21:39] <&Rebel_Virginia> Where actions are decreed by TOP. [21:39] <&Rebel_Virginia> If we can convince them of that, they may side with CnG not to help CnG, but rather to fight against TOP. [21:39] <&wentworth[NSO]> exactly. i dont think they would like that. though they could flop and become best friends with top as well [21:39] <&Rebel_Virginia> Like not voting for Obama, but voting against McCain. [21:40] <&wentworth[NSO]> much like how karma was assembled [21:40] <&Rebel_Virginia> <&wentworth[NSO]> exactly. i dont think they would like that. - Don't think they would like what? [21:40] <&wentworth[NSO]> living in a world dominated by top [21:40] <&Rebel_Virginia> Let's hope that is still true when CnG rolls them. [21:40] <&Rebel_Virginia> If it is, that might be what we can use to keep them from siding with SF. 01[21:41] <&ConeBone|AWAY> [21:38] So wait, when is CnG going to attack Purple? 01[21:41] <&ConeBone|AWAY> [21:40] haha yeah I saw Michael's comment 01[21:41] <&ConeBone|AWAY> [21:40] whenever we can? no set time really haha 01[21:41] <&ConeBone|AWAY> [21:40] we just haven't exactly made it a secret we don't like them and want to/ are trying to roll them 01[21:41] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Ignore that michael's comment thing [21:41] <&Rebel_Virginia> What comment? [21:41] <&Rebel_Virginia> Oh, ignore. [21:41] <&wentworth[NSO]> lol [21:41] <&Rebel_Virginia> When are these logs from? [21:42] <&Rebel_Virginia> These new? 01[21:42] <&ConeBone|AWAY> 12 seconds ago. [21:42] <&Rebel_Virginia> Well, I guess it is a given that this war will be happening fairly soon, in CN time that is. [21:43] <&Rebel_Virginia> So our plan for now (once approved by Lint) is to get only a PIAT with LOST, upgrade after the war perhaps, and to maintain good relations with purple. [21:43] <&Rebel_Virginia> Then we can try to convince purple not to side with CnG, which I doubt they would want to do, but rather to side against TOP, which they may be willing to do. 01[21:44] <&ConeBone|AWAY> For now that seems to be the best course of action. [21:45] <&Rebel_Virginia> Right. [21:45] <&wentworth[NSO]> good plan. [21:45] <&Rebel_Virginia> Nothing more we can plan on then. [21:45] <&Rebel_Virginia> Just wait for it happen. [21:45] <&Rebel_Virginia> And get the ground work set. 01[21:45] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Should we keep this from the diplomats as well? [21:45] <&Rebel_Virginia> Because I feel this will be a major war. Fairly small, but major from a diplomatic point of view. [21:45] <&Rebel_Virginia> I think so. [21:45] <&wentworth[NSO]> yeah they dont need to know [21:45] <&Rebel_Virginia> It is better that fewer people know. [21:45] <&Rebel_Virginia> Less leaks. [21:45] <&Rebel_Virginia> We don't want what we know getting out. 01[21:47] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Exactly, so just keep it amongst the Council for now and maybe let the plan spread to the DC and Ivan when it gets closer to the actual war. [21:47] <&Rebel_Virginia> Okay. [21:49] <&Rebel_Virginia> Sounds good. 01[21:50] <&ConeBone|AWAY> Awesome. 01[21:50] <&ConeBone|AWAY> I can message LintWad with these logs and briefly explain to him the plan we came up with 01[21:50] <&ConeBone|AWAY> unless one of you want to do it. [21:51] <&Rebel_Virginia> You can do it. [21:51] <&wentworth[NSO]> you can take it