wait a second, i might have just worked it out in my head Sep 20 19:30:44 bluemanshoe: well first i'm thinking i need to get rid of t in my formulas so i can figure out V_init Sep 20 19:31:23 Tommy, forget formulas for a second, talk the problem out, how are you going to find a solution Sep 20 19:31:36 if i knew that i wouldn't be here