2011-10-16 23:00:00	VajraInVan	sorry missed it, Ben, just getting settled
2011-10-16 23:00:01	Frabbit	Ie, founding fathers never dreamed of exhausting oil
2011-10-16 23:00:07	bentrem	Vajra - Your primary interest is finance? I still think you're a troll: you seduce whoever has attention.
2011-10-16 23:00:09	Frabbit	or issues like pollution
2011-10-16 23:00:28	bentrem	Vajra - So, while you're "getting settled" you ask questions about finance?
2011-10-16 23:00:51	bentrem	Vajra - How's NSA these days? or is it FBI? or CIA? kid, relax. pros here
2011-10-16 23:00:59	VajraInVan	haha and I'm looking for a pair of gloves since my hands are cold
2011-10-16 23:01:00	Frabbit	Finance is obviously a central topic
2011-10-16 23:01:08	Frabbit	cause it makes the world go round, lol
2011-10-16 23:01:20	mib_moon	am tired  seeking sleep soon
2011-10-16 23:01:25	bentrem	Frab - "Run your mouth" is entertainment ... you sure that's what you're aiming for?
2011-10-16 23:01:37	Frabbit	I am aiming for discussion
2011-10-16 23:01:44	bentrem	moon - you didn't chat ... why announce your sleepiness?
2011-10-16 23:01:52	mib_moon	why not
2011-10-16 23:02:04	mib_moon	this is boring?
2011-10-16 23:02:07	anotherobserver	at the root our traditional economic systems rely on some level of morality which is lacking, morality is a theme among many of the issues
2011-10-16 23:02:14	bentrem	Frab - matter of fact that's what I wudda said of you. wudda said it ... can't be sure, yaa? ^5
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2011-10-16 23:02:25	VajraInVan	 Well, economics may make the world go round but a central thesis from the movement I am picking up is that the underlying value system that must be recognized is that not everything has a price. Too much commodification
2011-10-16 23:02:51	bentrem	OMG huge long sentence.
2011-10-16 23:02:54	oblivious	government regulation should guarantee that economic agents acting slefishly don't cause macroscopic harm regardless of immorality.
2011-10-16 23:02:56	VajraInVan	sorry
2011-10-16 23:02:56	@wtfmates	Oh noes
2011-10-16 23:02:58	@wtfmates	K lined
2011-10-16 23:02:59	bentrem	Intern?
2011-10-16 23:03:14	bentrem	wtf?
2011-10-16 23:03:17	-->	Frabbit (60316658@hwtxf8.mibbit.com) has joined #occupyvancouver
2011-10-16 23:03:26	--	Mode #occupyvancouver [-b *!*@d467795918wfh343y.vc.shawcable.net] by wtfmates
2011-10-16 23:03:30	Frabbit	strange, I got banned
2011-10-16 23:03:33	bentrem	Dewd ... there's no limit to how nasty this can get.
2011-10-16 23:03:34	--	Mode #occupyvancouver [+c] by wtfmates
2011-10-16 23:03:43	@wtfmates	Yea, they banned mibbit users for a sec it seems
2011-10-16 23:03:50	@wtfmates	[23:02:17pm] * sfuseless (326292e1@bkalh1.mibbit.com) Quit (K-Lined)
2011-10-16 23:03:50	@wtfmates	[23:02:17pm] * anotherobserver (b816e9b2@bkalh1.mibbit.com) Quit (K-Lined)
2011-10-16 23:03:50	@wtfmates	[23:02:17pm] * mib_moon (326278c1@bkalh1.mibbit.com) Quit (K-Lined)
2011-10-16 23:03:50	@wtfmates	[23:02:17pm] * DownWithThisSortOfStuff (63ea9e8c@bkalh1.mibbit.com) Quit (K-Lined)
2011-10-16 23:03:55	bentrem	Frab - Cross town traffic ... don't take it personally ... IRC is like SouthLA
2011-10-16 23:03:56	@wtfmates	[23:02:17pm] * Frabbit (60316658@bkalh1.mibbit.com) Quit (K-Lined)
2011-10-16 23:04:00	Frabbit	lol
2011-10-16 23:04:09	VajraInVan	I was responding to Frabbit saying that economics makes the world go round. I think that is an important point. Money is like water and air and should not be privately controlled. That said, not everything should be commmodified, and this is a common theme among  the occupiers on the street
2011-10-16 23:04:12	bentrem	oh fuck, I think I know things
2011-10-16 23:04:13	oblivious	government regulation should guarantee that economic agents acting slefishly don't cause macroscopic harm regardless of immorality.
2011-10-16 23:04:21	bentrem	I try to moderate / support secure IRC
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2011-10-16 23:04:28	VajraInVan	:) I love your sense of humour, Ben
2011-10-16 23:04:30	@wtfmates	What bastards!
2011-10-16 23:04:31	@wtfmates	This video has been removed because it is too long.
2011-10-16 23:04:31	@wtfmates	Sorry about that.
2011-10-16 23:04:43	bentrem	I did SigInt. VanKidz: I know squat.
2011-10-16 23:04:44	oblivious	on water: Canada is currently having serious discussion about water as a commodity/.
2011-10-16 23:04:48	Frabbit	What other way to manage scarce resources?
2011-10-16 23:05:02	bentrem	Drop the excellence hard-on. relax. be 1 of a neighborhood. relax.
2011-10-16 23:05:02	Frabbit	besides money?
2011-10-16 23:05:18	bentrem	hey obliv ...
2011-10-16 23:05:36	oblivious	some people think GDP should account for loss of resources in extraction.
2011-10-16 23:05:37	bentrem	... I was just bustin' Vajra's chops ... no diss, just diff streams. good to see you
2011-10-16 23:05:53	Frabbit	The whole measure of GDP is also flawed
2011-10-16 23:05:59	oblivious	like right now we assume that oil has no value until it's extraced and that nothing of value is lost with it's removal
2011-10-16 23:06:15	Frabbit	for example, technological improvements make the cost of producing a hat go from $10 to $5
2011-10-16 23:06:20	Frabbit	guess what happens to GDP?
2011-10-16 23:06:21	VajraInVan	I am going to try to organize the questions and information I hear over these days and offer and organizational scheme, aspie like
2011-10-16 23:06:26	bentrem	Vajra - No sense of humor. "Profound relaxation". Q: Gelug? Too simple? Too subtle? Too esoteric?
2011-10-16 23:06:30	oblivious	I... actually don't know what you're talking about bentrem
2011-10-16 23:06:31	VajraInVan	:)
2011-10-16 23:06:53	Frabbit	Oh, I see your point oblivious
2011-10-16 23:06:54	Frabbit	interesting
2011-10-16 23:06:59	VajraInVan	You're faster and broader than me, ben
2011-10-16 23:07:07	bentrem	obliv - That's my way of saying, "Welcome Home!" huh huh
2011-10-16 23:07:10	Frabbit	Loss of resources in extraction is an interesting idea
2011-10-16 23:07:24	oblivious	another example of GDP being weird: stay-at-home parents vs. nannies
2011-10-16 23:07:28	Frabbit	in effect, you're creating a third party -"Mother nature" when considering costs
2011-10-16 23:07:33	VajraInVan	true, Ob
2011-10-16 23:08:07	bentrem	Vajra - "Profound relaxation" ... you take a crown (your nick) and put it on your head, and then say ... what? You took the nick. I don't diss. I say: TAKE the nick. Mean it. Don't BS.
2011-10-16 23:08:37	VajraInVan	I do like the gelugpas. Do they do debate?
2011-10-16 23:08:45	bentrem	1 don't BS. 2 don't BS. 3 don't manipulate. there.is.no.other
2011-10-16 23:09:29	Frabbit	anyways...
2011-10-16 23:09:30	bentrem	Vajra - "The gelug" ... I notice no capital on "Gelug" ... but you call yourself Vajra.
2011-10-16 23:09:39	VajraInVan	I never bs or manipulate (at least not consciously)  but I can't recommend the same to all others, because some have minds that are good with puns and so on... work differently from mine
2011-10-16 23:09:43	bentrem	Vajra - type /nice WhoIAm
2011-10-16 23:09:49	bentrem	nope nope typo
2011-10-16 23:09:51	VajraInVan	oh well, ben, I think I would like to be a diamond
2011-10-16 23:10:00	Frabbit	What are the ultimate goals of OccupyVancouver?
2011-10-16 23:10:03	bentrem	Vajra - type /nick MyNameHere
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2011-10-16 23:11:00	Frabbit	...
2011-10-16 23:11:11	bentrem	Ahhhhhhhh ... ladies and gentlemen, bellies and bellies, I'd like to introduce to you ... _yo quiero te representarle_ ... "individual sovereignty". The core problem.
2011-10-16 23:11:34	bentrem	greets another
2011-10-16 23:11:51	bentrem	"I'd like to be a diamond" ... cold, and hard. wow
2011-10-16 23:11:54	VajraInVan	Frabb, I think the ultimate goal (most generally stated goal) is to bring our social, political and economic organizations in line with the values that most people have
2011-10-16 23:12:09	VajraInVan	ben hahahah the clarity
2011-10-16 23:12:19	Frabbit	more specifically, what does this specific movement hope to accomplish?
2011-10-16 23:12:20	bentrem	" in line with the values that most people have" ... clarity?!
2011-10-16 23:12:26	Frabbit	lol, specific twice
2011-10-16 23:12:33	bentrem	sounds like mediocrity to me ... regress to the mean
2011-10-16 23:12:42	VajraInVan	you are making me laugh so hard I can hardly read back to see what the question is
2011-10-16 23:12:44	bentrem	Diamonds are just typical rocks?
2011-10-16 23:12:58	bentrem	When you relax, you lie to nobody ... not even yourself.
2011-10-16 23:13:00	bentrem	quote me
2011-10-16 23:13:02	bentrem	.
2011-10-16 23:13:04	bentrem	heh
2011-10-16 23:13:27	 *	bentrem so loves Pacific energy he left his kids in NS to come home
2011-10-16 23:13:43	Frabbit	What are the values that most people have?
2011-10-16 23:14:38	Frabbit	...
2011-10-16 23:14:42	@wtfmates	That the system work for the people and not to make money for the government
2011-10-16 23:14:43	bentrem	goooood question
2011-10-16 23:14:54	@wtfmates	The whole system is flawed
2011-10-16 23:14:56	bentrem	I declared defeat in 1976 and asked that question.
2011-10-16 23:15:01	VajraInVan	It is an empirical premise which I think is true, that most people have the same values: e.g., against war, accept others even those who superificially are "different" from them, care about knowledge.... etc. It is clear that the socio-poly-econ systems in place belie these
2011-10-16 23:15:05	Frabbit	what does that mean?  flawed
2011-10-16 23:15:08	@wtfmates	Money, Politics, Trade, Resources
2011-10-16 23:15:08	bentrem	"Yes, I can manipulate ... but can I know?"
2011-10-16 23:15:18	bentrem	http://gnodal.protension.com
2011-10-16 23:15:22	@wtfmates	The entire concept that money has devolved into is wrong
2011-10-16 23:15:27	@wtfmates	You cannot lend money into existance
2011-10-16 23:15:31	Frabbit	I would agree
2011-10-16 23:15:35	Frabbit	but no alternative exists
2011-10-16 23:15:36	bentrem	I ain't pretty ... or clehvur. I'm just the real thing. Sux to be me.
2011-10-16 23:15:49	bentrem	discourse
2011-10-16 23:15:51	@wtfmates	Well, when you boil down the money arguement, the obvious answer is to get rid of it
2011-10-16 23:15:53	bentrem	.
2011-10-16 23:16:02	Frabbit	that would result in chaos
2011-10-16 23:16:03	bentrem	nice distraction
2011-10-16 23:16:07	@wtfmates	But in order for that to happen, people need to be provided with shit
2011-10-16 23:16:07	bentrem	discourse
2011-10-16 23:16:08	bentrem	.
2011-10-16 23:16:28	 *	bentrem does NOT ask for agenda
2011-10-16 23:16:29	@wtfmates	And in order for that to happen, A society needs to exist that supports and fosters that kind of behavior
2011-10-16 23:16:33	Frabbit	so the solution is to equally divide resources and then get rid of money?
2011-10-16 23:16:56	@wtfmates	More or less, not so much equally divide as much as it is use as sparingly as possible
2011-10-16 23:16:59	VajraInVan	 wtf... I worry about putting that out aas a goal of the movmeent, as it may invite more invasion of privacy as a result  of going to a system where there is nothing but paper accounting and no cash
2011-10-16 23:17:06	bentrem	"Society"?! Huge term ... speak to me of community. Speak to me of friendship.
2011-10-16 23:17:07	bentrem	.
2011-10-16 23:17:25	@wtfmates	Ultimately I think that is the issue that needs to be brought to light
2011-10-16 23:17:26	VajraInVan	: -) right ben. tks
2011-10-16 23:17:38	@wtfmates	But if we want to try and fix the current system....
2011-10-16 23:17:47	@wtfmates	well....take the money out of politics
2011-10-16 23:17:53	Frabbit	the problem with that is,
2011-10-16 23:17:59	bentrem	Vajra - "I worry about putting that out aas a goal of the movmeent" Why would you worry about that? is it up to you? ).o
2011-10-16 23:18:00	@wtfmates	People in office, work for free. And are rotated as often as is needed!
2011-10-16 23:18:01	Frabbit	it takes away individual motivation
2011-10-16 23:18:05	bentrem	0.o
2011-10-16 23:18:12	@wtfmates	Monetary incentive of government should be removed.
2011-10-16 23:18:18	bentrem	"It" is magic.
2011-10-16 23:18:27	bentrem	"It" takes away motivation.
2011-10-16 23:18:30	VajraInVan	I agree with that one, wtf, and it is actually much bigger than people ralize... I mean... fix that and a whole else will be fixed (that = money in politics)
2011-10-16 23:18:36	bentrem	The magic voodoo "it".
2011-10-16 23:18:37	Frabbit	But honestly, the prime minister doesn't get paid that much
2011-10-16 23:18:48	VajraInVan	ben, I have an exalted sense of persoan responsibility I guess
2011-10-16 23:18:53	bentrem	holy fuck we're talking PM salary ... wow.
2011-10-16 23:18:55	VajraInVan	personal
2011-10-16 23:18:56	Frabbit	people in government do not have extremely lavish salaries
2011-10-16 23:18:59	@wtfmates	Theres also Corperate Personhood
2011-10-16 23:19:08	@wtfmates	The merging of entire sections of the economy
2011-10-16 23:19:09	-->	evolo (cf51749a@khueo3.mibbit.com) has joined #occupyvancouver
2011-10-16 23:19:20	Frabbit	what sections?
2011-10-16 23:19:20	@wtfmates	the mechinization of the work force and what few jobs are left
2011-10-16 23:19:33	@wtfmates	merging like companies buying up smaller companies
2011-10-16 23:19:40	bentrem	Vajra - An accomplished liar would claim that, yes. Now ... what were you saying? Big nick you got. I'm only the real thing. How are you.
2011-10-16 23:19:41	@wtfmates	creating monopolys on entire industries
2011-10-16 23:19:46	Frabbit	I actually believe that the only way to fix the problem of jobs is to limit work hours
2011-10-16 23:20:02	VajraInVan	That is where I would like to get a whole legal team working, wtf, on how to fight back that development in law re "corpporate personhood"
2011-10-16 23:20:12	@wtfmates	Think bigger then that, Jobs are being replaced and made obsolote by machines quicker then they are created
2011-10-16 23:20:15	bentrem	I challenge Vancouver - Stop throwing around huge abstractions and talk shit. I challenge.
2011-10-16 23:20:17	bentrem	.
2011-10-16 23:20:18	VajraInVan	claim what, ben?
2011-10-16 23:20:18	@wtfmates	Where is that going to end up ?
2011-10-16 23:20:36	@wtfmates	In 10 years, People wont even need to work, You could literally mechanize the entire workforce
2011-10-16 23:20:53	@wtfmates	Your Mcdonalds could be a huge vending machine
2011-10-16 23:20:59	Frabbit	perhaps an exaggeration, but Iagree
2011-10-16 23:21:11	@wtfmates	They could if they wanted to
2011-10-16 23:21:14	Frabbit	more like > 100 years, but the principle is the same
2011-10-16 23:21:20	Frabbit	the question then is
2011-10-16 23:21:21	@wtfmates	That is purposely being slowed down
2011-10-16 23:21:23	Frabbit	what do people do?
2011-10-16 23:21:35	bentrem	Vajra - I'm old and drunk ... how come I need to remind you of your words? " ben, I have an exalted sense of persoan responsibility I guess"
2011-10-16 23:21:38	bentrem	.
2011-10-16 23:21:49	@wtfmates	And people KNOW thats where its going, so they arent adopting, but every year, More machines are making jobs obsolete, make no mistake
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2011-10-16 23:22:05	Frabbit	true, but there isn't really a solution to that
2011-10-16 23:22:12	Frabbit	except to limit the population
2011-10-16 23:22:19	bentrem	Now ... hard-ball ... alt "exalted sense of personal responsibility" ... street smarts.
2011-10-16 23:22:22	Frabbit	and make the work week 4 days
2011-10-16 23:22:23	bentrem	Peasant Zen.
2011-10-16 23:22:25	<--	evolo (cf51749a@khueo3.mibbit.com) has quit (Client Quit)
2011-10-16 23:22:30	bentrem	Enlightened self-interest.
2011-10-16 23:22:41	Frabbit	working 4 days a week would actually solve a lot of problems
2011-10-16 23:22:46	Frabbit	it's already being done in Europe
2011-10-16 23:22:48	anotherO	lol
2011-10-16 23:22:48	@wtfmates	So if you cant have enough jobs for the world to work. Then the system is going to have to be rethought
2011-10-16 23:22:57	bentrem	"To thine own self be true, and it shall follow as the night day that you can then be false to no man."
2011-10-16 23:23:00	@wtfmates	Its not like thats the only problem
2011-10-16 23:23:03	@wtfmates	Money is out of control
2011-10-16 23:23:13	Frabbit	I also agree
2011-10-16 23:23:14	@wtfmates	There isnt enough money in existance to pay the debt of the world.
2011-10-16 23:23:18	VajraInVan	wtf, I suspect that that is an issue everyone should be addressing head on. Two (I suspect true) empirical claims: 1) Scarcity has been exaggerated. There is more to go around than we think  2) Due to automation etc. there are not enough jobs to go around.  So question, how will we - humanity  transition to a society where not everyone works but most everyone
2011-10-16 23:23:18	Frabbit	but no alternative exists
2011-10-16 23:23:19	bentrem	Stop over-thinking. Be where you are. Now. Just. All else follows.
2011-10-16 23:23:21	VajraInVan	has enough to eat
2011-10-16 23:23:21	bentrem	.
2011-10-16 23:23:35	anotherO	we will need to bring manufacturing back to north america soon, we wont' be able to afford chinese products
2011-10-16 23:23:44	VajraInVan	sorry I have to read back and see what I missed
2011-10-16 23:23:54	wilma	hello... this my first time on irc ever.  i'm with the media team.
2011-10-16 23:24:06	Frabbit	I truly believe that the answer to the job market is to limit working hours
2011-10-16 23:24:06	--	Mode #occupyvancouver [+v wilma] by wtfmates
2011-10-16 23:24:10	bentrem	Vajra - type /nick LeonInVan ... that would make sense
2011-10-16 23:24:22	Frabbit	it would create a higher "happiness" level as well
2011-10-16 23:24:26	oblivious	you know of the work less party frabbit?
2011-10-16 23:24:36	bentrem	Frabbit - pushing folk around? telling them what to do? you kidding?!]
2011-10-16 23:24:37	VajraInVan	hi wilma
2011-10-16 23:24:39	oblivious	hello wilma
2011-10-16 23:24:46	+wilma	hello
2011-10-16 23:24:46	Frabbit	yes, but their party isn't exactly well-developed
2011-10-16 23:24:54	@wtfmates	Wilma your on the media team ... but your in Alberta ?
2011-10-16 23:24:57	Frabbit	also the libertarian party would be interesting
2011-10-16 23:25:01	oblivious	I don't think they're even an official party anymore
2011-10-16 23:25:09	+wilma	no... is that what it says?
2011-10-16 23:25:24	Frabbit	bentrem ?
2011-10-16 23:25:26	+wilma	i think someone else has logged in through my computer... lol
2011-10-16 23:25:29	oblivious	work less, not libertarian I mean
2011-10-16 23:25:33	@wtfmates	Thats what ARIN says
2011-10-16 23:25:40	@wtfmates	Its not always right
2011-10-16 23:25:58	anotherO	arin?
2011-10-16 23:26:00	+wilma	hold on I'll log out my name is handrail... i don't know how i got wilma
2011-10-16 23:26:09	+wilma	all new to me ;)
2011-10-16 23:26:13	@wtfmates	get mirc :)
2011-10-16 23:26:15	@wtfmates	www.mirc.com
2011-10-16 23:26:19	Frabbit	So we would agree that the two central problems are:
2011-10-16 23:26:23	Frabbit	1) Monetary system
2011-10-16 23:26:26	Frabbit	2) Job market
2011-10-16 23:26:27	Frabbit	?
2011-10-16 23:26:34	@wtfmates	Yes those are definately two problems
2011-10-16 23:26:40	@wtfmates	imho
2011-10-16 23:26:47	anotherO	morality and integrity of politics
2011-10-16 23:26:51	Frabbit	I don't see a solution to 1) though
2011-10-16 23:27:03	anotherO	polliticians should be accountable for their actions
2011-10-16 23:27:06	@wtfmates	Why do people work?
2011-10-16 23:27:17	Frabbit	to make money
2011-10-16 23:27:17	VajraInVan	 I agree anotherO
2011-10-16 23:27:18	@wtfmates	Because they need money? Why do they need money? Cuz other people need money
2011-10-16 23:27:23	VajraInVan	that is another really big one
2011-10-16 23:27:27	@wtfmates	Take away money, And no one even fucking needs to work
2011-10-16 23:27:34	Frabbit	actually, to afford resources necessary for survival
2011-10-16 23:27:36	@wtfmates	Except for the parts of society that require it
2011-10-16 23:27:43	@wtfmates	Just about everything else can be done with machines
2011-10-16 23:27:57	@wtfmates	Forgot the state of things today, The technology exists to do all this. So why dont we ?
2011-10-16 23:28:05	Frabbit	that's a bit far in the future...
2011-10-16 23:28:16	Frabbit	saying people don't need to work is a bit of an exaggeration
2011-10-16 23:28:20	VajraInVan	wtf, "take away money" is not obviously good. That is what they want to do. If you end up without currency the result is that your every purchase and move will be tracked. You will still pay but you will be on record for every penny
2011-10-16 23:28:28	anotherO	we need to look at how to get from A to B
2011-10-16 23:28:31	@wtfmates	I've saw a machine laying cement in an intricite pattern the other day, doing a job my old roomate has been doing for 10 years.
2011-10-16 23:28:59	VajraInVan	I think that when we think of the most important changes to happen, we should rank them as things to happen soon vs. things to happen in the future
2011-10-16 23:29:27	anotherO	There needs to be a middle line between what we have now and what we should have.
2011-10-16 23:29:29	@wtfmates	I'd be ready to live without money and take up a job required to further society :)
2011-10-16 23:29:38	bentrem	blabla
2011-10-16 23:29:44	bentrem	put your hands up
2011-10-16 23:29:49	anotherO	we cant just say equalize teh wealth becuase that is essentially saying put the 1% up against the wall
2011-10-16 23:29:49	bentrem	nice tune on channel
2011-10-16 23:29:51	bentrem	.
2011-10-16 23:29:52	@wtfmates	I thought of something similar earlier
2011-10-16 23:29:58	@wtfmates	or rather a process
2011-10-16 23:30:10	Frabbit	but the problem lies in motivation
2011-10-16 23:30:13	VajraInVan	We need to set up things so that there is the right forward movement in the future. The changes that are coming are not small tweaks on the current system. We are talking about major changes, but still we don' presumably want chaos. So we have to organize the order of change to occur. Let future changes happen as they will -- don't control -- but set context
2011-10-16 23:30:19	Frabbit	ppl simply won't be motivated to work as hard without pay
2011-10-16 23:30:33	bentrem	Want theory? become an academic. Want to make it so? pay attention. Now. Here.
2011-10-16 23:30:34	@wtfmates	http://pastebin.com/WU72m77M
2011-10-16 23:30:47	anotherO	I agree var
2011-10-16 23:30:47	VajraInVan	ben :) you are right
2011-10-16 23:30:50	@wtfmates	I even pastebin'd it
2011-10-16 23:31:19	anotherO	Some of the necessary change is moving our economic system backwards
2011-10-16 23:31:33	VajraInVan	cool, wtf
2011-10-16 23:31:34	bentrem	Weird ... mIRC is throwing up some protection on links. Like it's new with an upgrade.
2011-10-16 23:31:46	bentrem	.
2011-10-16 23:31:46	anotherO	some necessary steps are to put artificial moral guides on corporations
2011-10-16 23:31:49	@wtfmates	Latest version of mIRC is 7.22 or so
2011-10-16 23:31:57	bentrem	Sooooo pains me to see you re-invent the wheel.
2011-10-16 23:31:58	@wtfmates	also it has a lot of built in protections
2011-10-16 23:32:04	@wtfmates	i know what your talking about now :P
2011-10-16 23:32:10	anotherO	i got banned earlier, the server does not like vpn services
2011-10-16 23:32:12	@wtfmates	Yes IRC Links are dirty evil things, be wary of them
2011-10-16 23:32:18	@wtfmates	Is generally a good rule
2011-10-16 23:32:28	bentrem	My friends and I never lived. It's like Stalin: he re-wrote history. You simply ignore it. And we're friends? what a mind-fuck
2011-10-16 23:32:29	oblivious	I won't say our monetary system is perfect but I will say that I have little enough confidence in peeople to improve upon that I won't make the assumption it will be done in my lifetime
2011-10-16 23:32:49	Frabbit	it's not a simple problem at all
2011-10-16 23:33:07	Frabbit	I have yet to hear of a simple monetary solution
2011-10-16 23:33:12	@wtfmates	Has anyone here not seen/is familiar with 'The Venus Project' ?
2011-10-16 23:33:22	Frabbit	yes
2011-10-16 23:33:26	Frabbit	but even that
2011-10-16 23:33:31	@wtfmates	A lot of the concepts were dicussing are pulled right from that
2011-10-16 23:33:34	Frabbit	it did not answer the question of motivation
2011-10-16 23:33:43	bentrem	Narcissism - It's all about you.
2011-10-16 23:33:44	@wtfmates	And it was on the table in 1974!
2011-10-16 23:33:55	anotherO	here is a tough one, privacy and secrecy support the system and do nothing for us
2011-10-16 23:33:59	@wtfmates	Talking about technology they had THEN to accomplish it
2011-10-16 23:34:09	Frabbit	again, where is the motivation?
2011-10-16 23:34:15	bentrem	You folk prove I've wasted my life, living it as an activist.
2011-10-16 23:34:32	Frabbit	probably
2011-10-16 23:34:38	bentrem	You folk are the proof that I've ... no, not been "wrong" ... proof that I've failed.
2011-10-16 23:34:39	bentrem	.
2011-10-16 23:34:42	@wtfmates	The whole world is wasting their life
2011-10-16 23:35:05	@wtfmates	As they'll realize when the world finally spins off course or we finally meet Water World.
2011-10-16 23:35:18	bentrem	Problem: shall I make the next statement? I'm not hostile even to my enemies. Should I bum you out?
2011-10-16 23:35:20	Frabbit	lol, swimming with the fishes
2011-10-16 23:35:27	bentrem	Yaa ... 1ce ... tonight.
2011-10-16 23:35:51	bentrem	When you swallow the deal that truly fucks us: you'll celebrate as though in victory.
2011-10-16 23:35:54	Frabbit	Regarding the Venus Project...
2011-10-16 23:36:07	Frabbit	the whole approach to marketing has been somewhat off
2011-10-16 23:36:21	Frabbit	instead of appealing to the general project and zeitgeist movement,
2011-10-16 23:36:22	bentrem	"Perfect answer is the donkey's hitching post." --old Zen saying
2011-10-16 23:36:24	bentrem	.
2011-10-16 23:36:28	VajraInVan	somewhat off?  Marketing, the whole idea, is way offbase
2011-10-16 23:36:40	Frabbit	they should be talking solely with the extremely wealthy
2011-10-16 23:36:40	@wtfmates	Its very forward thinking
2011-10-16 23:36:42	Frabbit	for example
2011-10-16 23:36:46	@wtfmates	But if even one city or one place
2011-10-16 23:36:47	@wtfmates	said hey
2011-10-16 23:36:47	VajraInVan	yes.
2011-10-16 23:36:50	@wtfmates	I'll fucking try that
2011-10-16 23:36:53	@wtfmates	Thats all it would take
2011-10-16 23:36:53	bentrem	If marketing is wrong, what of manipulation? if manipulation, what of victory?
2011-10-16 23:37:09	bentrem	Convince / compel / coerce / conquer.
2011-10-16 23:37:12	bentrem	Think, kidz.
2011-10-16 23:37:13	Frabbit	if you convince Bill Gates to do it, he will go down in history pretty much as Jesus
2011-10-16 23:37:21	Frabbit	that is sufficient motivation I believe
2011-10-16 23:37:30	bentrem	I'm drunk ... are you stoned? or fucked?
2011-10-16 23:37:36	VajraInVan	We are talking about what we want changed, how to hone the message. But how are we going to make it happen? Maybe that is more important. Maybe in fact there is already agreement among the occupiers as to what is wanted (articulating it needs work)
2011-10-16 23:37:48	bentrem	"Hone the message"
2011-10-16 23:37:54	VajraInVan	The real issue perhaps is how to get those billionaires to get aware
2011-10-16 23:38:13	bentrem	Tactic without strategy is the fast road to calamity ... as though ADHD junkies would care.
2011-10-16 23:38:15	bentrem	.
2011-10-16 23:38:28	Frabbit	VajarlnVan
2011-10-16 23:38:32	Frabbit	exactly
2011-10-16 23:38:34	@wtfmates	Once upon a time i was told i had ADHD
2011-10-16 23:38:46	bentrem	Ahhhhhh .... it's the billionaires who aren't aware. Ah, how neat.
2011-10-16 23:38:55	Frabbit	I'm saying that you tell them of the legacy they will leave behind
2011-10-16 23:38:59	bentrem	Vajra - Line them up and shoot them. there ... done
2011-10-16 23:39:05	Frabbit	that provides the motivation to fund such projects
2011-10-16 23:39:23	VajraInVan	aw ben. sorry image.
2011-10-16 23:39:40	Frabbit	The extremely rich truly have the power to save the world
2011-10-16 23:39:52	bentrem	Vajra - You pointed to the "Them" as the problem ... merely logic, kiddo. Think, much? evahr?
2011-10-16 23:40:14	bentrem	Watch as you get drunk on success ...
2011-10-16 23:40:26	bentrem	... watch, as you begin to swagger with confidnece.
2011-10-16 23:40:41	bentrem	Next? Resentment. After? Jealousy.
2011-10-16 23:40:43	VajraInVan	ben, I really do think they are a "them" despite the general advice against "othering" another human being. The reason I think they are a "them" is because I think that they believe that power mongering brings happiness and cannot imagine another way
2011-10-16 23:40:50	bentrem	DTES ... there's your library.
2011-10-16 23:40:51	Frabbit	Bentrem you don't really make any sense
2011-10-16 23:41:28	anotherO	ben is trying to point out that we are simple creatures that are easlily swayed. any changes need to take into account that we can be easily manipulated.
2011-10-16 23:41:45	Frabbit	swayed from what?
2011-10-16 23:41:48	Frabbit	what changes?
2011-10-16 23:41:51	bentrem	Vajra - In the tradition you pretend to we have a neat way of dealing with that. You pretend to the tradition, without doing the heavy lifting ... precisely my point: yuppies' kidz live by sophistry, by cheap word games.
2011-10-16 23:41:56	anotherO	from pretty much anything
2011-10-16 23:42:05	bentrem	My cohort is //clot//.
2011-10-16 23:42:15	VajraInVan	I learned that from talking to a guy at the VAG grounds yesterday. He made it clear to me that someone who has always pursued power and money will not realize that what we are doing is not pursuing power against them. They will think of it as a power game because they know nothing else. If we knew how to deal with that, we could change a lot
2011-10-16 23:42:57	Frabbit	what are "we" pursuing?
2011-10-16 23:42:58	@HermesT	For suuuuuure!
2011-10-16 23:43:10	VajraInVan	ben... I admire the tradition but have not put in the work of the buddhist tradition... only enough to know how brilliant it is
2011-10-16 23:43:25	Frabbit	wtfmates, you still on?
2011-10-16 23:43:44	@HermesT	havnt heard from him in a bit
2011-10-16 23:43:53	 *	bentrem almost had a conversation with Vajra
2011-10-16 23:44:06	bentrem	When I go into a bar, or tavern, I talk with folk.
2011-10-16 23:44:12	bentrem	Van kidz avoid me.
2011-10-16 23:44:15	VajraInVan	but I would never accept sophistry or cheap word games. I certanly do not think that discussion is all word games
2011-10-16 23:44:19	bentrem	Typical ... symptomatic.
2011-10-16 23:44:33	@wtfmates	http://www.tpuc.org/node/285
2011-10-16 23:44:37	bentrem	Vajra - I was asking? there was a question? huh huh
2011-10-16 23:44:40	@HermesT	Trivium, or Quadrivium... how many of you are aware of this classic form of education?
2011-10-16 23:44:42	bentrem	Discourse
2011-10-16 23:44:44	VajraInVan	kk ben
2011-10-16 23:44:49	bentrem	discourse
2011-10-16 23:45:09	VajraInVan	tell us, Hermes
2011-10-16 23:45:13	ahmeni	vain posturing abundance
2011-10-16 23:45:23	bentrem	What yuppies' kidz learned: you can bully people while acting "nice". Sux to be you.
2011-10-16 23:45:31	Frabbit	I'm going to bed soon.  I guess my final conclusion is that the Occupy movement won't accomplish anything.
2011-10-16 23:45:41	VajraInVan	Frabbit, be patient
2011-10-16 23:45:47	@HermesT	its juicing up conversation Frabbit
2011-10-16 23:46:00	Frabbit	oh, I have faith in you guys
2011-10-16 23:46:11	Frabbit	but the vast majority simply chants, "We are the 99%"
2011-10-16 23:46:13	<--	JehdeEee (~Jehde@x2291760i68dm8is2.vc.shawcable.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2011-10-16 23:46:16	bentrem	OMG let's all suck up to Frabbit.
2011-10-16 23:46:17	Frabbit	without any regard for actual ideas
2011-10-16 23:46:21	@HermesT	Dialog exchange between municpalities, the people, and developing communities within cities who want badly enough to work towards honest change
2011-10-16 23:46:23	bentrem	lamer
2011-10-16 23:46:30	@HermesT	people get caught up in the rhetoric
2011-10-16 23:46:33	bentrem	lazy lamer
2011-10-16 23:46:45	VajraInVan	Brabb, my experience talking with people individually is that people had very rich ideas
2011-10-16 23:46:48	VajraInVan	Frabb
2011-10-16 23:46:49	bentrem	lamer pseudo
2011-10-16 23:46:54	<--	wtfmates has kicked bentrem (stop that)
2011-10-16 23:47:02	Frabbit	...
2011-10-16 23:47:20	@wtfmates	I'm contented
2011-10-16 23:47:23	anotherO	one bottle too many I suspect...
2011-10-16 23:47:24	VajraInVan	I want to write stories about what people taught me in just one day
2011-10-16 23:47:30	VajraInVan	However... I have my day job
2011-10-16 23:47:58	VajraInVan	wtfmates. How can you kick people online?
2011-10-16 23:48:19	VajraInVan	sounds very skilled
2011-10-16 23:48:20	@HermesT	there use to be a slap function too i believe
2011-10-16 23:48:21	Frabbit	do you guys sincerely believe that the OccupyVan movement will develop an objective by Friday?
2011-10-16 23:48:25	@HermesT	with a giant fish perhaps?
2011-10-16 23:48:38	@HermesT	yea ive seen some major legwork out of vancouver lately
2011-10-16 23:48:46	Frabbit	such as?
2011-10-16 23:48:50	@HermesT	Calgary is developing slowly as well
2011-10-16 23:49:03	VajraInVan	why is Friday the deadline, Frabb?  And the objective is to get rid of a plutocracy which has crept up on us
2011-10-16 23:49:15	 *	wtfmates slaps HermesT around a bit with a large trout
2011-10-16 23:49:30	@HermesT	There are a few spearheading GA stuff, the community is definitly vibin it and feeling it out
2011-10-16 23:49:48	Frabbit	Friday was just arbitrary, but bumming around in front of an art gallery shouldn't be too long of an extended process
2011-10-16 23:49:50	@HermesT	 lol /slap wtf
2011-10-16 23:50:02	 *	VajraInVan slaps everyone
2011-10-16 23:50:09	Frabbit	I don't believe that objective is specific enough
2011-10-16 23:50:10	anotherO	The starting point should be to sit down with what nyc has put together
2011-10-16 23:50:20	@HermesT	any luck finding their news print?
2011-10-16 23:50:21	VajraInVan	True, Frabb
2011-10-16 23:50:29	@HermesT	i just heard about it
2011-10-16 23:50:36	Frabbit	From what I have read, they (NYC) haven't reached any goals yet either
2011-10-16 23:50:56	Frabbit	which is why I believe this Occupy movement will fail to produce results
2011-10-16 23:50:58	@HermesT	first they ignore, then they laugh, then they attack, then we win
2011-10-16 23:51:09	Frabbit	whose they?
2011-10-16 23:51:10	@HermesT	Frabbit the occupymovement has already produced results
2011-10-16 23:51:16	Frabbit	what results?
2011-10-16 23:51:19	@HermesT	lol sorry just a quote i heard on stream earlier
2011-10-16 23:51:29	anotherO	they have a statement, someone posted a utu
2011-10-16 23:51:35	VajraInVan	Frabb, my sense is that there is not a different message for the various different fronts (sorry for metaphor) in the various cities, but rather their will be a few common themes/acts in addition to the ones spcific to the different communities
2011-10-16 23:51:35	anotherO	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yks-xxClwZ4
2011-10-16 23:51:53	VajraInVan	I agree with Hermes
2011-10-16 23:52:14	anotherO	that youtube link has keith oberman reading the nyc statement its pretty good stuf
2011-10-16 23:52:14	@HermesT	I'd believe the point of the occupation is to get the people communicating... PERIOD
2011-10-16 23:52:25	Frabbit	watchin the vid now
2011-10-16 23:52:33	Frabbit	it seems to be about arrests
2011-10-16 23:52:33	@HermesT	people are truly unaware of the laws and canons that reside within their establishment
2011-10-16 23:52:41	VajraInVan	Yes, Hermes, I agree that that is a big part of it and it would be successful if that was the sum of it
2011-10-16 23:52:55	Frabbit	seriously?
2011-10-16 23:52:57	Frabbit	that's the point?
2011-10-16 23:53:03	Frabbit	just communication
2011-10-16 23:53:03	VajraInVan	People have been isolated, noticing individually that there is something wrong, and not having a clear notion how it all fits together
2011-10-16 23:53:18	anotherO	he starts half way through
2011-10-16 23:53:19	VajraInVan	Frabb, remember that the mainstream media is highly suspect
2011-10-16 23:53:21	Frabbit	be honest, that's a pretty weak sauce objective
2011-10-16 23:53:24	VajraInVan	by all involved in Occupy
2011-10-16 23:53:30	@wtfmates	People dont realize its not just diminishing jobs or rising debt, its the whole fucking system
2011-10-16 23:53:35	@HermesT	Frabbit would you have been on here, discussing this if you weren't just a little bit motivated to see something fresh?
2011-10-16 23:53:36	@wtfmates	But it takes a bit for people to wake up to that one
2011-10-16 23:53:37	VajraInVan	Mainstrema Media has not been serving people
2011-10-16 23:53:47	Frabbit	I am motivated
2011-10-16 23:53:56	Frabbit	I have just yet to see any results/solutions
2011-10-16 23:54:00	anotherO	the act of bringing concensus orginization to people all over the world is signigicant in itself
2011-10-16 23:54:00	@HermesT	mainstream media is a waste of breath and not worth mentioning in that regard
2011-10-16 23:54:15	VajraInVan	This is an extremely common theme. That the Mainstream Media has not served people and is owned by a few multi-nationals. Murdoch misadventures lurks like an ugly balloon above the parade
2011-10-16 23:54:50	anotherO	how many university students are here in this room?
2011-10-16 23:54:57	@wtfmates	I graduated
2011-10-16 23:55:04	@wtfmates	So im not currently a student
2011-10-16 23:55:11	Frabbit	I'm on co-op
2011-10-16 23:55:11	@wtfmates	Does that still count :P
2011-10-16 23:55:14	Frabbit	so still a student
2011-10-16 23:55:31	anotherO	Im past that, family, kids, business etc...
2011-10-16 23:55:32	@HermesT	Mainstream media is now Our Social Medium. Ironically schooled and policed by facebook...  Twitter.. LinkedIn and Reddit.. maybe Digg too
2011-10-16 23:55:50	@wtfmates	I'm 28
2011-10-16 23:55:52	@HermesT	I owe about 25,000 in student loans from VFS
2011-10-16 23:56:09	anotherO	Universities are where access to intelectual resources are supposed to be the easiest to access
2011-10-16 23:56:17	anotherO	43
2011-10-16 23:56:24	@wtfmates	Education is becoming a sham
2011-10-16 23:56:30	@wtfmates	Most of what i learned, I taught myself
2011-10-16 23:56:35	Frabbit	but is education really for everyone?
2011-10-16 23:56:37	@HermesT	.. Such is trivium
2011-10-16 23:56:39	anotherO	The tools are there
2011-10-16 23:56:54	@HermesT	Everyone deserves to learn in life. Daily
2011-10-16 23:56:54	Frabbit	seriously, it's an education creep
2011-10-16 23:56:55	@wtfmates	Eduction just manugactures opinion
2011-10-16 23:57:00	@wtfmates	*a
2011-10-16 23:57:05	Frabbit	it used to be that not everyone graduated high school
2011-10-16 23:57:06	anotherO	education produces university professors, not educated people.
2011-10-16 23:57:10	VajraInVan	Must be off. Night all. Nice talking to you
2011-10-16 23:57:16	@wtfmates	*-g+f
2011-10-16 23:57:18	anotherO	at least what we are using presently
2011-10-16 23:57:21	@HermesT	Namaste ninja.
2011-10-16 23:57:25	VajraInVan	:)
2011-10-16 23:57:38	@wtfmates	Cya Vaj
2011-10-16 23:58:22	anotherO	The point being that universities are where young people go to learn and ideally think. we teh people need to harness that drive and intelectual power to help figure out what the frack to do.
2011-10-16 23:58:28	anotherO	nght vaj
2011-10-16 23:58:44	<--	VajraInVan (18540c07@hwtxf8.mibbit.com) has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
2011-10-16 23:59:08	-->	bentrem (~ab006@x031057763ndo4496.ed.shawcable.net) has joined #occupyvancouver
2011-10-16 23:59:18	Frabbit	I feel some people at the protest are just butthurt about their own debts the've accumulated
2011-10-16 23:59:28	Frabbit	and blaming it on "evil corporations"
2011-10-16 23:59:32	bentrem	Such a small group ... but I get kicked. Wow ... you are a historic gathering.
2011-10-16 23:59:45	@HermesT	i agree. and im sure there are protestors who are there just make funky signs too.. but such is the way of freedom
2011-10-16 23:59:49	anotherO	and yes wtf most of what most of us learn is self taught
2011-10-16 23:59:57	@HermesT	Lol welcome back bentrem
2011-10-17 00:00:03	anotherO	slogans now meanings later  -my favorite protest sign
2011-10-17 00:00:14	anotherO	I nearly got lynched for it.. (-:
2011-10-17 00:00:15	Frabbit	lol, so true
2011-10-17 00:00:27	Frabbit	Probably actually the most accurate sign
2011-10-17 00:00:31	ahmeni	thats actually a good sign
2011-10-17 00:00:44	Frabbit	or "You can be rich, just not that rich"
2011-10-17 00:00:45	ahmeni	basically people are mad and they dont know why
2011-10-17 00:00:46	Frabbit	epic lulz
2011-10-17 00:00:47	@wtfmates	I've got ben on Ignore
2011-10-17 00:00:49	 *	bentrem dares rise up and say "Voluntary simplicity ... been living it for 3 decades. Tell me what it's about. I raised 5 kids, but evidently know nothing."
2011-10-17 00:01:00	@wtfmates	In case he is attempting to speak to me
2011-10-17 00:01:19	@wtfmates	* Removed Bentrem!*@* from ignore list
2011-10-17 00:01:20	bentrem	wow ... "I have X on ignore in case he tries to talk to me"
2011-10-17 00:01:26	bentrem	This is what democracy looks like?
2011-10-17 00:01:54	bentrem	Van yuppies kidz are //precisely// what fascism is. Thanks for the straight-line, WTF.
2011-10-17 00:02:04	bentrem	Heavy handed asshole all night, in channel.
2011-10-17 00:02:11	bentrem	He someone's pal, no doubt.
2011-10-17 00:02:24	bentrem	#PersonalityPolitics
2011-10-17 00:02:45	bentrem	Partiality ... you're crooked, kiddo. You cheat.
2011-10-17 00:02:48	anotherO	ben you did not grow up with television the way that the young people today did, they cant help it
2011-10-17 00:03:05	bentrem	Mundane fascism is how they get to us. Not by me ... you brag about it.
2011-10-17 00:03:13	@HermesT	... kay dude, you got something interesting to say?
2011-10-17 00:03:21	@HermesT	or you just here to pick fights?
2011-10-17 00:03:23	Frabbit	so... kind of want to bet money on how long the protests will last, lol
2011-10-17 00:03:25	@HermesT	we're looking for growth here
2011-10-17 00:03:41	@HermesT	Snowfall will bust it up quickly i think
2011-10-17 00:03:51	Frabbit	oh another issue I thought about
2011-10-17 00:03:55	bentrem	What does democracy look like?
2011-10-17 00:04:06	Frabbit	why is it that this movement has to "fight" from the outside?
2011-10-17 00:04:20	ahmeni	This TinyURL redirects to:
2011-10-17 00:04:20	ahmeni	http://Occupy Vancouver Notes from GA 7pm Oct
2011-10-17 00:04:21	ahmeni	16th.This TinyURL redirects to:
2011-10-17 00:04:21	ahmeni	http://Occupy Vancouver Notes from GA 7pm Oct
2011-10-17 00:04:23	bentrem	There is no "outside". next
2011-10-17 00:04:34	Frabbit	wouldn't it be more prudent to protesters to rise amongst the ranks of corporations and then make changes when they have power?
2011-10-17 00:04:51	anotherO	We need to take advantage of the hyperwired young students to grow it outside of the physical location
2011-10-17 00:04:56	bentrem	Hermes - Mundane fascism isn't important? Wow ... "agenda" really rules.
2011-10-17 00:05:09	Frabbit	but hyperwired young students often equals retards
2011-10-17 00:05:19	@HermesT	nah people complaining about you is kinda offtopic dontcha think?
2011-10-17 00:05:20	Frabbit	and I'm saying this as a 21 yr old student
2011-10-17 00:05:38	bentrem	Frab - I honestly don't mean this as diss ... but ... WTF ... "wouldn't it be more prudent to protesters to rise amongst the ranks of corporations and then make changes when they have power?" wow
2011-10-17 00:05:53	Frabbit	what's wrong with that?
2011-10-17 00:06:00	bentrem	Did you mean, "We have to work for change from inside"?
2011-10-17 00:06:09	Frabbit	yes...
2011-10-17 00:06:12	bentrem	Cuz that's how my cohort sold out ... early 70s
2011-10-17 00:06:21	Frabbit	"sold out"
2011-10-17 00:06:33	bentrem	You are who are are ... not in mind, in deed.
2011-10-17 00:06:47	Frabbit	I don't even
2011-10-17 00:06:48	anotherO	ben can you stop harrassing the kids and try to hellp them
2011-10-17 00:07:08	bentrem	To be a corporate slave as though ... some super-spy? Yaa but bro', meanwhile day in day out you're doing their deeds.
2011-10-17 00:07:09	bentrem	KISS
2011-10-17 00:07:33	anotherO	We've all had our asses kicked trying to work from within over the years
2011-10-17 00:07:40	Frabbit	"Corporate slave"
2011-10-17 00:07:41	Frabbit	lol
2011-10-17 00:07:51	Frabbit	that's an interesting way to put it
2011-10-17 00:08:07	bentrem	anot - wow, where's the harassment?! good bouncers, good bar. I learned that Main and Hastings. You're gonna ban me for like ... like the NSA kidz who fucked Indymedia.
2011-10-17 00:08:13	bentrem	"harass"
2011-10-17 00:09:09	bentrem	well, anot ... you killed that discussion good
2011-10-17 00:09:11	bentrem	.
2011-10-17 00:09:12	anotherO	the goal in my eyes is to empower the young people to work for change
2011-10-17 00:09:16	bentrem	I was talking karma
2011-10-17 00:09:19	bentrem	I was talking life
2011-10-17 00:09:23	bentrem	I was talking world
2011-10-17 00:09:31	bentrem	you? "Don't harrass the young kids"
2011-10-17 00:09:34	Frabbit	man you're drunk/high
2011-10-17 00:09:34	bentrem	.
2011-10-17 00:09:42	@HermesT	hahahaha
2011-10-17 00:09:43	bentrem	and you live by dissing
2011-10-17 00:09:48	@HermesT	uhh wot?
2011-10-17 00:09:52	bentrem	hermes laughs
2011-10-17 00:10:02	bentrem	jr highschool personality politics ...
2011-10-17 00:10:07	Frabbit	anyways, I'm out.  I hope ppl actually think about issues before protesting.
2011-10-17 00:10:10	bentrem	... like I've written about any number of times
2011-10-17 00:10:12	bentrem	.
2011-10-17 00:10:16	Frabbit	and label corporations "evil"
2011-10-17 00:10:24	@HermesT	Thanks for stopping in Frabbit
2011-10-17 00:10:25	bentrem	yaaa
2011-10-17 00:10:29	bentrem	be red-neck
2011-10-17 00:10:33	bentrem	go for "evil"
2011-10-17 00:10:35	@HermesT	check your pm for some links
2011-10-17 00:10:38	bentrem	don't be honest about yourself
2011-10-17 00:10:45	Frabbit	lol
2011-10-17 00:10:46	bentrem	"They" are "evil" ...
2011-10-17 00:10:49	bentrem	... wow
2011-10-17 00:10:50	Frabbit	I am honest
2011-10-17 00:10:52	@wtfmates	bentrem, You've got 5 seconds to stop talking shit
2011-10-17 00:11:02	Frabbit	he's harmless
2011-10-17 00:11:06	<--	Frabbit (60316658@hwtxf8.mibbit.com) has left #occupyvancouver
2011-10-17 00:11:12	@HermesT	kinda discredits himself ya
2011-10-17 00:11:21	anotherO	by definition a corporation can be called evil. they are legally people with no moral guides, more like sociopaths really.
2011-10-17 00:11:28	@wtfmates	I bet he is :P But its still disruptive to constructive chat
2011-10-17 00:11:29	bentrem	Tell me about "evil"
2011-10-17 00:12:01	anotherO	cna you really label a sociopath as evil? or are they just defective?
2011-10-17 00:12:04	@wtfmates	Evil see: George Bush
2011-10-17 00:12:18	@wtfmates	Sr or Jr, take your pick
2011-10-17 00:12:19	bentrem	shall I give you my page on psychopathy?
2011-10-17 00:12:22	anotherO	both bush evil squared
2011-10-17 00:12:22	@HermesT	Luciferian Masons! Crowleys Ipsissimus!
2011-10-17 00:12:28	bentrem	WTF will say I'm talking shit
2011-10-17 00:12:39	@HermesT	well now your talking shit bout bush, so its not directed at anyone here..
2011-10-17 00:12:42	anotherO	send me your page ben, I've enjoyed your stuff so far
2011-10-17 00:12:45	bentrem	cuz WTF doesn't have to be honest: he knows that I'm evil
2011-10-17 00:12:53	@wtfmates	I dont see how psychology factors into any discussion we are having here
2011-10-17 00:14:13	@HermesT	haha slayed
2011-10-17 00:14:20	anotherO	corporations as they exist are legally people, without any moral or ethical guides. there is a huge amount of psycology both from the humans guiding them and from the corporations interaction with the world. Strangely its all psychology
2011-10-17 00:14:26	@HermesT	So this peoples mic is waaaaaay all over the place
2011-10-17 00:14:37	@HermesT	you guys watching this stream?
2011-10-17 00:14:48	@HermesT	http://www.livestream.com/occupyvancity
2011-10-17 00:15:03	bentrem	sec ... it's old ... gotta double-check on my server (sez the fulla shit drunk old man)
2011-10-17 00:15:21	@HermesT	you said it, not me (;
2011-10-17 00:15:38	bentrem	OMG I remembered the file name http://www.bentrem.sycks.net/fallen_angels.html
2011-10-17 00:15:43	bentrem	1995 that is
2011-10-17 00:16:18	bentrem	Chebucto Community Net ... we started that in Hali ... good work. (Not bla-yada-blah ... actual work.)
2011-10-17 00:16:42	bentrem	OMG that's 16yrs ago w00f
2011-10-17 00:17:22	bentrem	Better: afer People's Summit, G8 1995: http://www.bentrem.sycks.net/gff/gff.html
2011-10-17 00:17:41	bentrem	.
2011-10-17 00:17:57	bentrem	Point: winning an argument is about colonization ...
2011-10-17 00:17:58	ahmeni	HermesT: wow
2011-10-17 00:18:02	ahmeni	this guy has a good cantor
2011-10-17 00:18:04	bentrem	... discourse means losing, often.
2011-10-17 00:18:11	ahmeni	he's got a good message too
2011-10-17 00:18:52	bentrem	sri ... french / N'n Alberta ... TibBuddh ... know 0 about cantor. Honest. And heh I started busking GasTown '78.
2011-10-17 00:19:02	anotherO	thks... reading...
2011-10-17 00:19:45	bentrem	Hey, I got better ... those came up in context. Not hustling.
2011-10-17 00:19:47	bentrem	.
2011-10-17 00:19:57	bentrem	Want a good page? for the action? sec ...
2011-10-17 00:20:07	@HermesT	deoxy.org/dd for 250+ rss feed action
2011-10-17 00:20:19	bentrem	haaaaaaahaha deoxy omg huh huh
2011-10-17 00:20:20	@HermesT	+it looks great if you hit f11
2011-10-17 00:20:20	bentrem	http://groundplane.wordpress.com/gp-101/
2011-10-17 00:20:25	bentrem	Discourse.
2011-10-17 00:20:47	bentrem	WTF didn't hurt me when he was heavy handed, earlier. But I noticed.
2011-10-17 00:20:53	bentrem	I noticed, and I said so.
2011-10-17 00:21:10	bentrem	I said so cuz I'm a radical democrat. Not about me/ mine / me victorious.
2011-10-17 00:21:23	bentrem	2+2=4 ... there.is.no.other
2011-10-17 00:21:26	 *	bentrem sits
2011-10-17 00:21:31	@HermesT	93
2011-10-17 00:21:48	 *	bentrem ponders 93 ... does a factorial on 42
2011-10-17 00:21:52	@HermesT	2&2 is 4, 2 and 2 is 22
2011-10-17 00:22:08	@HermesT	depends on how you look at it, why is your math right and my logic not?
2011-10-17 00:22:16	@HermesT	WAIT< THIS IS MORE RHETORIC
2011-10-17 00:22:25	bentrem	hermes = clehvur. me = slow, not stuhpud
2011-10-17 00:22:46	bentrem	ooooh SIT ...hermes is shouting. 'sup?
2011-10-17 00:23:09	@HermesT	reading. shh. O.o
2011-10-17 00:23:23	bentrem	huh huh hermes ... w/respect ... pls see my humble http://groundplane.wordpress.com/gp-101/
2011-10-17 00:23:24	@HermesT	er. do what you do, just going to bite my tongue in the meantime
2011-10-17 00:23:29	-->	another (b86b816a@mlxka5.mibbit.com) has joined #occupyvancouver
2011-10-17 00:23:49	bentrem	dont' bite ... becomes a habit ;p
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2011-10-17 00:24:41	@HermesT	Thank you for the bentrem.sycks.net
2011-10-17 00:24:48	another	back, got banned again this server hates my vpn service
2011-10-17 00:25:00	bentrem	wtf is a bitch
2011-10-17 00:25:09	@wtfmates	Well now
2011-10-17 00:25:15	@wtfmates	I think thats a bannable offense
2011-10-17 00:25:18	another	I dont think the answer is at the bottom of that bottle
2011-10-17 00:25:21	@HermesT	wooooosh
2011-10-17 00:25:24	--	Mode #occupyvancouver [+b *!*@x031057763ndo4496.ed.shawcable.net] by wtfmates
2011-10-17 00:25:29	<--	wtfmates has kicked bentrem (O RLY)
2011-10-17 00:25:47	--	Mode #occupyvancouver [-b *!*@x031057763ndo4496.ed.shawcable.net] by wtfmates
2011-10-17 00:25:52	@HermesT	gave em a little bit of love and a little bit of hate.. haha
2011-10-17 00:26:03	@HermesT	Wait what happend to live feed, i no longer hear
2011-10-17 00:26:21	@HermesT	oop here wego, still chattin
2011-10-17 00:27:39	another	yeah its playing that propoganda again. sigh
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2011-10-17 00:28:04	<--	wtfmates has kicked bentrem (nope)
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2011-10-17 00:33:45	--	HermesT is now known as HermT|SLEEPing
2011-10-17 00:34:06	@HermT|SLEEPing	jah bless, gnite http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=11129410&q=hi&newref=1
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