[11:57] how long has katapult been around? [11:57] a while, but development seems to be rather slow [11:57] --> xx has joined this channel (n=xx@222.212.106.86). [11:58] <-- deb_noob has left this channel ("Out"). [11:58] <-- Apocryphe has left this server (Success). [11:59] Renze: um.. not really [11:59] ? [11:59] <-- mankind_tweezer has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [11:59] im just wondering but this Enso, while looking very interesting, sure seems to copy katapult [11:59] it's only recently that they uploaded to SVN, but most of the development was in Bazaar [11:59] even down to the icon [12:00] Enso? [12:00] wtf is enso? [12:01] <-- shadok has left this server (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [12:01] *** shadok_ is now known as shadok. [12:01] pretty much exactly like katapult. runs on windows, costs 65 bucks, and they seem to have spent more on the professional video interviews of their developers than on the actual code. [12:01] ah, windows... no wonder I've never heard of it [12:02] heh [12:02] ditto [12:02] --> milchscheich has joined this channel (n=milkshei@89.62.99.250). [12:02] it kind of sucks that they seemed to have copied katapult so directly, because they do have some interesting things. [12:02] like selecting an expression and having it evaluated with a quick command [12:02] or replacing an address with a map in a document [12:02] well, katapult is open source... let's just see what license they have it on [12:02] in* [12:03] its closed source [12:03] well, i think. it actually leverages python, so im not sure. [12:03] hm... [12:03] they probably stole the code... seems to be the norm on Windows [12:03] i cant imagine what they could have stolen [12:04] i mean what of the code would even be usable in windows? [12:04] well, they shouldn't be able to make it closed source since Katapult code is GPL if they took katapult's code [12:04] most of it, probably [12:04] --> deb_noob has joined this channel (n=deb_noob@adsl-69-210-119-43.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net). [12:04] Jucato: only if they respect the license... they can "choose" to ignore it [12:04] hm... I can't seem to see anything that resembles katapult in here [12:04] all the event stuff in katapult would be Qt or X, right? same goes for the launching of things, and all their plugins are written in python. [12:04] why is it that if a font drops below 9 then it becomes sized improperly in konqueror and kopete? [12:05] Jucato: where are you looking? [12:05] there are other launchers for Windows, some a bit better than katapult in some things... [12:05] humanized.com has a video demo of it [12:05] ironfroggy: humanized.com [12:05] ok I'll watch the video [12:05] Jucato: why is it that if a font drops below 9 then it becomes sized improperly in konqueror and kopete? [12:06] computers are hard to use? since when? ;) [12:06] it doesn't even visually resemble katapult [12:06] Since they invented Windows... [12:07] yeah every other platform is just a dream [12:07] tvtoon: ah, no wonder... I only had Windows for about 9 months :D [12:07] does anyone know [12:07] i think anyone is deluding themselves when they try to say that computers honestly dont suck [12:07] it also doesn't behave like Katapult [12:07] ironfroggy: my computer doesn't suck... it does everything I want it to do, and does it well ;) [12:07] Jucato: how doesnt it? seems identical besides the UI. they just have more interesting plugins. [12:08] since they dont have to write them in crappy languages :-) [12:08] ironfroggy: are you talking about the concept of typing in a few letters to launch an app? [12:08] Jucato: no. [12:08] ironfroggy: hear hear. [12:08] we're talking about the same Enso Launcher right? [12:09] ahhh, pretties on the work laptop: http://www.ac.nz/~jes/Screenshots/vega.png [12:09] Jucato: yes.. [12:09] ironfroggy: http://www.humanized.com/products/enso/launcher/ <---- [12:09] why cant katapult do all the things it does? it needs to get easier plugin languages. [12:10] ??? [12:10] Renze: what do you think? :) (of the work screenshot) [12:10] in katapult, you don't even have to launch a calculator [12:10] Of course I have to use a lot of evil ugly gtk apps :( Or rather java pretending to be gtk. [12:10] nice wallpaper [12:10] It's one of the ones that come with suse. [12:10] at least it's green ;) [12:11] It's trying to look polished and enterprisy! cause that's what I do for a living! [12:11] sadly, I have been informed that kittens are not enterprisey. [12:11] Jucato: thats really the only thing it has going for it unfortunately. [12:11] canllaith: bah... kittens fit in almost everywhere ;) [12:11] ironfroggy: what? besides the fact that you don't have to type in "open" to launch an app? [12:11] That's what I said! [12:12] and apparently glittery butterfly stickers on one's thinkpad is also not enterprisey :( [12:12] <-- deb_noob has left this channel ("Out"). [12:12] Jucato: i actually dont like that its implicit in katapult... it makes any other possible plugins seem very second banana. [12:12] I have to agree with that one ;) [12:12] I only have one. It's where the windows sticker would be if I hadn't removed it. [12:12] ironfroggy: what do you mean? [12:12] canllaith: I would have put a Tux there ;) [12:12] ironfroggy: by the way, there's a #katapult channel where you can air your grievances [12:12] Jucato: there are a lot of commands i would like to add to katapult but the idea of adding more just seems useless because it would only interfere with running things of similar name [12:13] I had none. I need to convince someone to send me some of the KDE laptop stickers, those look great. [12:13] apparently sebas is sending me some KDE pins! yay! [12:13] I lost mine :( [12:13] * Renze has no KDE paraphernalia [12:13] the new katapult (0.3.2) has an "exec" plugin now. I just haven't gotten around to using it [12:13] so I can't lose it ;) [12:13] When the pins come you can have one if you like. [12:13] cool [12:14] I'd give you a conference shirt [12:14] :( [12:14] but um, the XL mens size is tight on me. [12:14] ack [12:14] As in, I made someone knock over a cup of spoons he was too busy staring at my chest tight. [12:14] Jucato: do the plugins still have to be written in C++? [12:14] ironfroggy: I think so, yes [12:14] wear it on Wednesday ;) [12:14] I'm hoping I can convince people that us fatty westerners need something more like an XXXXXL on that sizing scale. [12:14] thats a shame [12:15] ironfroggy: take a look in the katapult forums. they I think they have some other unofficial plugins there [12:15] i just dont have the time to waste it on C++ [12:15] Heh fat chance, I'll be at work. Skirt and heels. [12:15] oh well... [12:15] lol so you want someone else to scratch your itch for you [12:15] ever tried asking for that feature? filing a wish or something? [12:15] <-- schleichmich has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [12:15] yes ive spoken with the devs previously but no one seemed interested in allowing for python plugins. [12:16] would make me happy if katapult allowed me to invoke menu items [12:16] I was doing something.... [12:16] --> groucho has joined this channel (n=groucho@cpe-65-25-75-25.neo.res.rr.com). [12:16] OH marking that issue closed so I can go HOME. [12:16] That would have been it. [12:16] Theory: which menu items? [12:16] yeah i know i could do it myself if i want it so badly, but i dont have the time and that doesnt mean i cant still want the feature and cant tell the devs so. if its a good idea, and it is, they should give it some weight. it would save them time and effort in the end. [12:16] Jucato: of the active window [12:16] <-- groucho has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [12:16] --> mankind_tweezer has joined this channel (n=andy@e204074.ext.net.ias.edu). [12:16] Theory: you mean like File, Edit, etc? [12:16] yes [12:17] * Jucato thinks really hard... [12:17] i want gimp plugins for katapult too [12:17] * Renze turns off the smoke alarm [12:17] (I can see this being possible with qt/kde apps, and a right pita for any others) [12:17] `alt+space blur` would be nice [12:17] it always goes off when Jucato thinks [12:17] * Jucato wonders if it's easier to Alt+F -> O or Ctrl+O than Alt+Space, type "Op..." [12:18] is the slingshot icon unique from katapult? [12:18] <-- mankind_tweezer has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [12:18] yes [12:18] Jucato: personally I've never found those accelerators particularly nice to use [12:18] don't know why [12:18] Jucato: yeah but what about Alt+Space, type "Hide S...", and other less top items? [12:19] keyboard shorcuts would be more efficient, but that's just imho [12:19] I'm not a katapult dev so my opinion doesn't have bearing [12:19] * Jucato points to #katapult or b.k.o. [12:20] I'll have a hack around at some point when I'm bored :-) [12:20] * Jucato wonders if katapult *is* in b.k.o. [12:20] nn all [12:20] night! [12:20] Jucato: we're all human. all of our opinons have bearing. [12:21] ironfroggy: have you asked about being able to use bindings for the plugins? KDE has lots of bindings [12:21] the mentality that ideas are worthless if you dont back them up with code is just moronic, egotistical, and a recipe to loose great resources. [12:22] ???? [12:22] Jucato: yes, ive looked into it a good bit previously. [12:22] Jucato: well thats a common reaction in OSS projects, isnt it? dont complain if you cant fix it yourself. [12:22] not really [12:22] it's just the reaction if what you're asking for is currently technically impossible or unfeasible [12:23] or if the devs (whom you can't force anyway) doesn't want to do it [12:23] s/doesn't/don't/g [12:23] yes but "doesn't want to do it" often comes from their mentality of ignoring users. [12:23] HOME! [12:24] ironfroggy: you could also take into consideration that they don't have the resources to do it [12:24] if you yourself don't have time to do it, how about a dev who's more than multitasking? [12:25] then there's also the "can't do it" part [12:25] <-- tagx has left this server (No route to host). [12:25] --> jordo23 has joined this channel (n=jordo23@CPE-70-94-33-31.wi.res.rr.com). [12:25] im not saying they should implement every suggestion i make, but devs often get into a broken loop where they habitually dont give outside ideas enough weight, even if it could be a far better use of their resources than the things they insist on working on instead. [12:26] * Renze makes a shopping list for a quick trip to the supermarket [12:26] but this is a debate for another time, another venue. i dont mean to get into it. [12:26] <-- njdube_ has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [12:26] ironfroggy: I'm presuming you have already talked/met/dealt with a large majority of developers on this planet in order to make such a generalization of developer behavior? [12:27] I'm not denying that there may be devs in some projects who act like that. but to generalize things... [12:27] generalising is what humans do best ;) [12:27] Renze: in which case, sometimes your Rule #1 applies [12:27] yes ive seen it from many developers from many projects [12:27] sometimes? ;) [12:28] and of couse im generalizing. if id seen this from all but a single developer, who i had not yet met, i would still be generalizing. [12:28] [CTCP] Received CTCP-PING request from mangz74, sending answer. [12:28] * Jucato sighs [12:29] * Renze shoes [12:31] * Renze shops [12:34] <-- magyar has left this server ("Konversation terminated!"). [12:35] --> Schalken has joined this channel (n=Schalken@C-59-101-234-23.bur.connect.net.au). [12:35] anyone know how to reset the kmenu? [12:38] --> oggb4mp3 has joined this channel (n=oggb4mp3@24-50-92-60.kntnny.adelphia.net). [12:39] Schalken, Ctrl+Alt+BackSpace [12:39] tvtoon: very funny [12:40] :D [12:40] <-- rdale has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [12:42] ironfroggy: I have an idea. How about you pay us, and then we'll do your bidding. [12:43] Until then, accept that your suggestions may not be implemented, although I can assure you that we do pay careful attention to wishes. [12:43] Schalken: You want to go entirely back to KDE default, losing all your customisations? [12:43] canllaith: yep [12:44] Schalken: This can vary a little depending on your distribution, but usually your customisations are stored in ~/.config/menus [12:44] is there something like a meta applet for kicker ? i mean an applet i can put other applets in [12:44] on my system there is a file called applications-kmenuedit.menu in there [12:45] delete that file, then run 'kbuildsycoca --noincremental' from the command line and you should be back at default menus [12:45] <-- Stalwart has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [12:45] canllaith: yeah a gentoo wiki told me to "rm ~/.config/menus/applications-kmenuedit.menu" but there is no such file, but there is an applications.menu ;) [12:46] *** xx is now known as Jo2Zak. [12:46] --> Stalwart has joined this channel (n=stalwart@86.57.10.154). [12:46] I'd suggest removing that one then [12:46] <-- jordo23 has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [12:47] or moving it out of the way to another folder if you're unsure [12:47] I keep falling off the wireless, bleh [12:47] didnt seem to do much, even after restarting kicker [12:48] You need to run kbuildsycoca --noincremental like I said above. Did you try that ? [12:48] --> manuhack has joined this channel (n=manuhack@dyn-160-39-17-243.dyn.columbia.edu). [12:48] canllaith: oh i missed that, thanks [12:49] canllaith: are you a katapult dev? [12:49] kio (KSycoca): ERROR: No database available! :( [12:49] woo gestures in konqueror are so smooth capared to firefox [12:49] *compared [12:50] ironfroggy: Nope, I'm speaking about open source developers in general, since you were making generalisations about them. [12:50] that fixed some of it actually, maybe the other inconsistencies are default [12:50] ill make a new user and see [12:50] cool [12:50] im allowed to make generalizations about groups im included in. [12:51] Tell me where I said that you weren't :) [12:51] i want to point out that im not just some randomly disgruntled user. im a developer myself. [12:51] its just that i often rant, because software sucks, and im usually pegged as doing so for not knowing any better, for being a dumb user, and for having no clue whats involved in the process, as so many disgrunted users do. [12:52] when in fact its just the opposite. im disgruntled because i know full well how much less software could suck.