17:58 <alex_joni> I've been thinking about your latest email to the list
17:58 <rayh> I hope so.
17:58 <rayh> And?
17:59 <alex_joni> I'm afraid it can get messy if we insist on non-free stuff
17:59 <alex_joni> maybe it would be ok if we make a non-free module in cvs and stick any stuff in there
17:59 <alex_joni> to be honest I wasn't quite sure to what you were referring to
18:00 <rayh> messy how?
18:00 <alex_joni> I'm sure there are people that won't be ok with it
18:03 <rayh> I would not at all be surprised at that kind of reaction from jmk
18:04 <rayh> There is no such thing though as a license for the entire EMC2 project.
18:04 <alex_joni> why not?
18:04 <rayh> Each file carries it own copyright.
18:04 <rayh> There are many authors.
18:04 <alex_joni> I understand that.. but so does the linux kernel
18:05 <rayh> Each author is personally responsible for the terms they place on their files.
18:05 <alex_joni> yes, and so far all are GPl/LGPL compatible
18:05 <rayh> But they need not be.  There are many other "open" licenses.
18:05 <rayh> I
18:06 <rayh> I'd use artistic if I wrote another open gui.
18:06 <alex_joni> I didn't see any people needing other open licenses
18:06 <alex_joni> imo we have enough GUI's
18:06 <alex_joni> if there are other GUIs needed, those are probably non-free
18:06 <alex_joni> and they would be ok linking through libnml
18:07 <alex_joni> I mean communicating
18:07 <rayh> But none of that should affect the ability that some project person has.
18:07 <alex_joni> but that's a non-issue for the project
18:07 <alex_joni> right..
18:08 <alex_joni> otoh, I think we can keep emc2 GPL/LGPL only
18:08 <rayh> NO
18:08 <rayh> We must allow folk to do what they feel they need to do.
18:08 <alex_joni> what kind of folk?
18:09 <rayh> If I were jon e I would have made the code available for ppmc but not open licensed it.
18:09 <alex_joni> why not?
18:09 <rayh> As it is, anyone can write firmware and use his stuff.
18:09 <alex_joni> do you really think anyone can backengineer his FPGA code from the driver?
18:09 <alex_joni> I seriously doubt that
18:10 <rayh> No permission is needed.
18:10 <rayh> Sure it's done all the time.
18:10 <alex_joni> I don't think so
18:10 <alex_joni> having the interface is pretty far away from knowing what the internals of the ppmc are
18:11 <alex_joni> but I'll give you another example
18:11 <rayh> Ah but all the protocol stuff is right there with no restriction.
18:11 <alex_joni> maybe you know the ethernut (an microcontroller with ethernet)
18:11 <rayh> I do.  I've used several of them.
18:11 <alex_joni> the company that made that board also released the schematics and OS under GPL
18:12 <alex_joni> they make a lot of bucks from selling the boards, even if anyone could build them theirselves
18:12 <alex_joni> and they really give out _all_ the info there is
18:12 <alex_joni> not just the interface to the board
18:12 <alex_joni> but I guess that's a non-issue here
18:12 <alex_joni> it's a way of thinking/doign business
18:13 <rayh> Sure.
18:13 <rayh> I've argued for years that the emc projects have an anti-business attitude.
18:14 <alex_joni> I'm not sure if another attitude would have benefited the project in any way
18:14 <alex_joni> err.. that came out worse than I wanted
18:14 <alex_joni> benefited the project more
18:14 <rayh> np
18:14 <rayh> When G&L was thinking about using some of EMC...
18:15 <rayh> They decided it was to much trouble to work with us.
18:15 <rayh> We were much to hobby minded and could not think industrial.
18:16 <rayh> We have gotten better but why do we still insist on not being an entity and doing business like a business.
18:16 <rayh> apache, mysql, and hundreds of other "Open source" projects do.
18:17 <alex_joni> I see your point
18:18 <rayh> Yes it would probably be good to put specialized, proprietary hardware modules in a place away from some of the other stuff but it makes messy
             compiles.
18:20 <alex_joni> with the work jeff did it's quite easy to compile additional drivers out of the emc2 source tree
18:20 <alex_joni> with emc2-dev I mean
18:21 <rayh> Okay.
18:22 <rayh> I started by reacting to fenn when he said we should audit all the files.
18:22 <alex_joni> Ken Lerman said that
18:22 <alex_joni> and I don't agree with him
18:23 <alex_joni> otoh, he can do it if he feels like it.. nothing stopping
18:23 <rayh> That audit is not our problem.  If an issue arises it comes from outside our group.
18:23 <rayh> There are a whole bunch of files in pluto that are not gpl/lgpl
18:23 <rayh> All of the firmware program specific stuff.
18:24 <rayh> It's copyright altera
18:26 <rayh> I don't have a problem with that, Paul would piss and moan a lot though.
18:26 <alex_joni> hmm.. didn't look at that yet
18:27 <rayh> When he fussed about the mesa stuff, I got PeteV and Pete at Mesa to agree to make it open.
18:27 <rayh> Mesa's thinking was that this restrictive requirement was a bit childish.
18:33 <alex_joni> I don't think it's childish
18:34 <alex_joni> it's a price to pay if it gets distributed with emc2
18:34 <alex_joni> not sure if the price is right or now (guess they decided it is)