Feb 24 21:41:43 <oorza> I have an encode that I am doing and I have some bad blocking in the background (slowly gradiating green wall - gradiating from shadows) but the foreground (dude's face) look really good and sharp, and all the smootheners/blur filters I've used kill the blocking but also the detail in the actor's face
Feb 24 21:41:45 <Bobby> on _some_ sources it's noticeable
Feb 24 21:41:52 <Bobby> the rundown looks amazing in 1080p
Feb 24 21:41:57 <oorza> do you have any suggestion, or is it just give-take and I need to find a balance
Feb 24 21:41:59 <blargman> u can tell the pixel differences in the hand in the background
Feb 24 21:42:01 <Bobby> big difference
Feb 24 21:42:19 <blargman> the differences in color is uniform on the 1080p on the 720p it had less pixels to work with
Feb 24 21:42:30 <blargman> :D
Feb 24 21:42:32 <Bobby> oorza: is the background banding present in your source
Feb 24 21:42:34 <Moomeister> Bobby:care to illustrate?
Feb 24 21:42:37 <Bobby> or is it being introduced by x264 during the reencode
Feb 24 21:42:41 <oorza> Bobby it is
Feb 24 21:42:42 <blargman> dunno if i'd see that in real time tho :D
Feb 24 21:42:44 <Valerio> ooh yea
Feb 24 21:42:48 <Valerio> show us a good 720p vs 180p
Feb 24 21:42:56 <Valerio> as in the 1080p is really good
Feb 24 21:43:01 <Moomeister> cuz so far I haven't seen any comparison where the difference is really significant
Feb 24 21:43:29 <Bobby> the rundown, over the hedge, sleepy hollow
Feb 24 21:43:39 <Bobby> those are 3 movies where 1080p looks signifigantly more detailed
Feb 24 21:43:46 <Bobby> in sleepy hollow's case it's "more grain"
Feb 24 21:44:02 <Bobby> in oth it's "more detail" because it's cgi and was rendered at 4k
Feb 24 21:44:17 <blargman> .38fps!
Feb 24 21:44:19 <Moomeister> wonder if it's more bitrate dependant than actual resolution
Feb 24 21:44:22 <blargman> i'm rockin
Feb 24 21:44:24 <Moomeister> or a little of both
Feb 24 21:44:37 <Valerio> well you can only get so much detail in a resolution
Feb 24 21:44:44 <Lord^> Disabled Users	68,048
Feb 24 21:44:46 <Lord^> Rofl
Feb 24 21:44:51 <Valerio> dvds have easily enough for their resolution
Feb 24 21:45:00 <Valerio> *easily enough b/w
Feb 24 21:45:05 <Valerio> bitrate
Feb 24 21:45:07 <Bobby> oorza: if the banding is present in the source your options are limited somewhat
Feb 24 21:45:36 <Bobby> add this to the end of your avs: blockbuster(method="noise",detail_max=6,cache=4096)
Feb 24 21:45:39 <blargman> anyone know of any sites that list common video problems with the definitions, with actual pictures showing it?
Feb 24 21:45:58 <blargman> i'm just curious, as i have no effing idea what banding is, and i figure a worded explanation would clear it up less
Feb 24 21:46:19 <Valerio> sharp changes in colour
Feb 24 21:46:22 <Bobby> add this to your x264 commandline on both passes: --cqmfile "F:\x264\eqm_avc_hr.cfg"
Feb 24 21:46:22 <Bobby> get that file on doom9
Feb 24 21:46:32 <Valerio> you see 'bands' of colours
Feb 24 21:46:44 <blargman> oh well, i guess i could check wikipedia hehe
Feb 24 21:46:47 <Valerio> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_banding
Feb 24 21:46:51 <blargman> hit me with a stupid stick
Feb 24 21:46:54 <heat> what the mother fuck
Feb 24 21:46:57 <blargman> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posterization
Feb 24 21:47:03 <heat> it encodes the one frame
Feb 24 21:47:06 <Moomeister> Valerio:well then again if you count pixels the difference between NTSC DVD and 720p is close to the difference between 720p and 1080p, and the difference in detail isn't comparable at all like that, guess 1080p is already pushing how much detail you can get out of masters?
Feb 24 21:47:09 <heat> and the rest turns to garbage
Feb 24 21:47:12 <heat> DIE FUCKING H264
Feb 24 21:47:12 <Bobby> you can also try --deadzone-intra 9 --deadzone-inter 18 which will preserve more noise, preventing additional blocking
Feb 24 21:47:16 <uanime> Anyone know why ProCoder is being a pain in my ass with TS files? It always gets to 50% on a 2-pass VBR and then just hangs
Feb 24 21:47:19 <Moomeister> at least with the methods used today
Feb 24 21:47:49 <uanime> Not using avs or anything, just feeding the file itself in
Feb 24 21:48:05 <Valerio> lol, procoder
Feb 24 21:48:16 <Valerio> what a silly name
Feb 24 21:48:29 <Moomeister> heh it is actually quite pro
Feb 24 21:48:34 <Valerio> yea Moomeister: like bobby was saying, the 1080p ones mainly look good for cgi
Feb 24 21:48:43 <Valerio> because the sources for those are really high res
Feb 24 21:48:49 <Valerio> rather than film
Feb 24 21:49:06 <oorza> Bobby Bobby I've been using that cqm file
Feb 24 21:49:10 <Bobby> basically 1080p is useless if the film was shot with the wrong lenses
Feb 24 21:49:12 <oorza> and what does blockbuster do?
Feb 24 21:49:56 <blargman> hrmm, at this encode rate, should only take me 122hrs to complete the encode :P :D
Feb 24 21:49:56 <Moomeister> yeah, makes you wonder what 4k is gonna be like with current stuff
Feb 24 21:49:56 <Bobby> blockbuster adds a light random noise to blocks without detail
Feb 24 21:49:56 <Bobby> x264 smooths blocks with low detail, causing banding
Feb 24 21:49:59 <Bobby> blockbuster adds noise to those blocks preventing x264 from smoothing them
Feb 24 21:50:18 <Bobby> do not ever use temporal smoothers on film sources
Feb 24 21:50:22 <Bobby> unless you want to become a HINT superstar encoder
Feb 24 21:50:42 <oorza> if you give me one second...
Feb 24 21:51:06 <blargman> timesup
Feb 24 21:51:19 <oorza> the smoothers I was using were Msmooth and Convolution3d
Feb 24 21:51:32 <Bobby> NO
Feb 24 21:51:32 <Bobby> turn those both off
Feb 24 21:51:37 <oorza> :-o
Feb 24 21:51:39 <oorza> why?
Feb 24 21:51:46 <Moomeister> lol that got him upset :D
Feb 24 21:51:52 <blargman> i think he just said why
Feb 24 21:52:00 <Bobby> you don't want to smooth the movie
Feb 24 21:52:10 <Bobby> x264 strips grain by itself, it doesn't need help
Feb 24 21:52:30 <oorza> I have the threshold for Msmooth down very low so that it doesn't catch hardly anything except in large blocks of consistent color
Feb 24 21:52:37 <oorza> I screened like 4 different scenes
Feb 24 21:52:53 * TT|Laptop has quit (Ping timeout)
Feb 24 21:53:01 <oorza> and Convolution3d doesn't really do anything that I can see except normalize the color a bit
Feb 24 21:53:23 <oorza> but if you suggest getting rid of them, I can try with only blockbuster, but I can't encode it through x264 for another 4 hours
Feb 24 21:53:39 <oorza> unless, of course, you have more filters to suggest :D
Feb 24 21:54:14 <SeXBOX> you know what programs really piss me off?
Feb 24 21:54:19 <SeXBOX> aim, yahoo im, and quicktime
Feb 24 21:54:44 <SeXBOX> because when you open them up, regardless of any settings or msconfig configurations, if you open them, the next time you reboot they WILL start up
Feb 24 21:54:49 <SeXBOX> and you have to disable them again in msconfig
Feb 24 21:54:52 <SeXBOX> over and over and over
Feb 24 21:54:52 <SeXBOX> forever
Feb 24 21:55:49 <Valerio> you could .. not install them
Feb 24 21:55:51 <xbuix15> um you suck
Feb 24 21:55:54 <xbuix15> AIM is easy to turn off
Feb 24 21:56:06 <Valerio> it probably has a setting for it
Feb 24 21:56:14 <uanime> yeah it does
Feb 24 21:56:20 <Bobby> if the banding is present in the source you can do nothing to fix it other than _adding_ noise to those areas, because smoothers don't create a color gradient on edges of zones with DCT blocking
Feb 24 21:56:24 <uanime> same with quicktime too I think
Feb 24 21:56:30 <Moomeister> SeXBOX:use quicktime alternative
Feb 24 21:56:33 <heat> anyone know anything about encoding h264->x264
Feb 24 21:56:33 <Valerio> just uninstall quicktime :S
Feb 24 21:56:36 <Moomeister> 1000 times better
Feb 24 21:56:44 <heat> REQUIERING ASSISTANCE
Feb 24 21:56:47 <Bobby> adding noise to those areas creates a dithering effect which reduces the perceptual impact of banding
Feb 24 21:57:16 <SeXBOX> does QT alt work properly with dynamic qt elements?
Feb 24 21:57:36 <Moomeister> dynamic elements? such as?
Feb 24 21:57:36 <SeXBOX> like revver video has the ads at the end so it has dynamic qt elements so if you watch a video in anything but QT, it will fuck up
Feb 24 21:57:58 <Moomeister> afaik it uses qt engige, just without all the bloatware
Feb 24 21:58:19 <SeXBOX> well because like democracy player, vlc, windows media player
Feb 24 21:58:22 <SeXBOX> all fuck up
Feb 24 21:58:26 <Bobby> anyways oorza try doing that, and try --deadzone-inter 9 --deadzone-intra 18 in your x264 commandlines
Feb 24 21:58:34 <SeXBOX> does qt alt have playlists or queueing?
Feb 24 21:58:41 <Bobby> that should make the banding less severe
Feb 24 21:58:44 <SeXBOX> because qt doesnt
Feb 24 21:58:44 <oorza> is there a way to manually edit x264 profiles in megui?
Feb 24 21:58:49 <Moomeister> try it, I'm pretty sure it can do everything qt does, but more, better and faster
Feb 24 21:58:56 <Bobby> make sure your bitrate's over ~5000 too if possible
Feb 24 21:59:07 <blargman> oorza u mean the avs?
Feb 24 21:59:12 <blargman> or the megui profile?
Feb 24 21:59:19 <oorza> the megui x264 profile
Feb 24 21:59:30 <blargman> well wordpad works for both
Feb 24 21:59:44 <blargman> but u can load one and hit config and change w/e
Feb 24 22:00:06 <SeXBOX> works
Feb 24 22:00:09 <SeXBOX> and uses mpc
Feb 24 22:00:11 <SeXBOX> so yes to playlists
Feb 24 22:00:11 <SeXBOX> nice
Feb 24 22:00:25 <Bobby> banding's present in every mpeg/avc source to a degree
Feb 24 22:00:49 <Bobby> hell I'm watching esir's stargate right now and it's banding like crazy in the opening scene of the prehistoric village
Feb 24 22:00:54 <oorza> blargman I don't see the deadzone in megui's x264 config editor
Feb 24 22:01:00 <Bobby> it's the source, nothing can be done
Feb 24 22:01:04 <oorza> :(