[06:32] <mornfall> apokryphos: no
[06:32] <apokryphos> mornfall: is smart going to be used at all in kubuntu?
[06:33] * apokryphos is interested on how exactly it'll be implemented to get biarch going
[06:33] <apokryphos> perhaps i should search the wiki :P
[06:33] <mornfall> apokryphos: no :-)
[06:33] * apokryphos listens
[06:33] <mornfall> no for "used at all"
[06:34] <imbrandon> hrm yesterday at the Smart BOF they mentioned it will be used in edgy
[06:34] * apokryphos is a little lost
[06:35] <mornfall> edgy ubuntu
[06:35] <mornfall> sure
[06:35] <apokryphos> aha, wiki, excellent
[06:35] <mornfall> i'm not interested
[06:35] <apokryphos> mornfall: well that's what I'm talking about of course :)
[06:35] <mornfall> so unless Riddell drops me, adept will continue the set course
[06:35] <apokryphos> apt is still to be *the* package manager in edgy
[06:36] <apokryphos> and hence so would adept 8)
[06:36] <mornfall> it will stay that way for ever :]
[06:36] <apokryphos> probably
[06:37] <mornfall> well
[06:37] <mornfall> unless you volunteer to rewrite adept in python using smart
[06:37] <mornfall> good luck with that :)
[06:38] <mornfall> who was the person with the python-based notifier? :)
[06:39] <apokryphos> cool, https://wiki.kubuntu.org/SmartPackageManager has a lot of info
[06:39] <apokryphos> interesting, biarch compatibility isn't mentioned on there and I thought it was the main reason for using smart =)
[06:39] <mornfall> where you got that idea?
[06:40] <mornfall> there's at least apt-rpm that supports biarch
[06:40] <mornfall> also
[06:40] <mornfall> it should be noted that biarch is so useless
[06:40] <apokryphos> I know, but apt-rpm isn't great
[06:40] <mornfall> noone cares :)
[06:40] <apokryphos> I got the idea from mark's original post to the mailing list
[06:40] <Lathiat> why is it useless?
[06:40] <apokryphos> and.........no, biarch isn't useless
[06:40] <mornfall> whatever
[06:40] <mornfall> it is
[06:40] <Lathiat> the ability to packaged install 32bit versions of software on a mainly 64bit system would be usefull to me numerous occasions now
[06:40] <apokryphos> care to enlighten us?
[06:41] <apokryphos> Lathiat: exactly
[06:41] <mornfall> eventually, amd64 will unscrew theier architecture and it'll be useless again
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[06:41] <apokryphos> hah
[06:41] <mornfall> s/64//
[06:41] <Lathiat> mornfall: how so?
[06:41] <apokryphos> ok, sure
[06:41] <mornfall> well, it's still useless for 95+% of cases
[06:41] <imbrandon> how is amd screwed the arch ?
[06:41] <apokryphos> so what? It still leaves that 5% which is very annoying at times
[06:42] <mornfall> the 5% can live with chrooting
[06:42] <Lathiat> also its not just amd
[06:42] <apokryphos> hell no
[06:42] <Lathiat> iirc its usefull for sparc & powerpc too
[06:42] * imbrandon loves his amd64 and to install 32bit userland apps would be great
[06:42] <apokryphos> chroot is hardly an alternative
[06:42] <Lathiat> ugh no chrotting is ugliest shit in the world
[06:42] <Lathiat> and is just a patch aroudn the fact the chroot can be installed on the overall system
[06:42] <mornfall> it's much more elegant than biarch
[06:42] <mornfall> really
[06:42] <Lathiat> = biarch!
[06:42] <imbrandon> yea ppc64 and ppc32
[06:42] <apokryphos> :/
[06:43] <apokryphos> and really, other distros had biarch quite some time ago. Ubuntu/Debian really need to catch up 8)
[06:43] <mornfall> biarch means this ugly as shit workaround for not being able to have multiple versions of an so
[06:43] <mornfall> lib64? for fucks sacke
[06:43] <apokryphos> so what?
[06:43] <mornfall> it couldn't be more obivous special-case workaround
[06:43] <mornfall> sake*
[06:43] <imbrandon> mornfall, chroot is a pita for 90% of people , this is a "user friendly" distro ;)
[06:43] <apokryphos> looks very nice and tidy to me
[06:43] <apokryphos> exactly
[06:43] <mornfall> imbrandon: plain users don't mix 64b and 32b software
[06:43] <Lathiat> yes they do
[06:44] <Lathiat> firefox is a very popualr example
[06:44] <Lathiat> becaue flash etc arent 64bit
[06:44] <apokryphos> want flash to be able to work with flash+konqueror already? Not a problem
[06:44] <Lathiat> plsu there are a number of apps that fail to work properly on 64bit
[06:44] <imbrandon> mornfall, plain uses SHOULD use a 64bit kernel and all 32bit userland stuff with the EXCEPTION being 64bit userland
[06:44] <mornfall> Lathiat: ahem -- proprietary software? i absolutely don't care
[06:44] <Lathiat> the netflow collector software i use at work for example
[06:44] <apokryphos> see a nice package for ubuntu but the user (as a lot) didn't package it for amd64? Again, not a problem
[06:44] <Lathiat> which is free software
[06:44] <apokryphos> wine etc too
[06:44] <Lathiat> mornfall: just because you dont care, doesnt mean no one else does
[06:44] <Lathiat> so you should rephrase your opinion to
[06:45] <Lathiat> "biach is useless to me"
[06:45] <Lathiat> :)
[06:45] <mornfall> Lathiat: oh, it means that i won't implement it :)
[06:45] <Lathiat> also i lack the ability to spell
[06:45] <-- Hobbsee has left this server (Connection timed out).
[06:45] <mornfall> which in turn means unless someone else implements it, it won't exist
[06:45] <mornfall> easy :
[06:45] <mornfall> :-)
[06:45] <apokryphos> ubuntu said it'd  be implemented through smart, anyhow
[06:46] <mornfall> feel free to rewrite all apt-based software
[06:46] <mornfall> noone is stopping you, really
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[06:46] <apokryphos> some people are working on the problems
[06:46] <apokryphos> (see the wiki page)
[06:46] <mornfall> well, that includes adept
[06:46] <Lathiat> well id ont know aythign about smart
[06:46] <apokryphos> jdub & co.
[06:46] <Lathiat> i thought it was being worked on to make it work in apt?
[06:46] <mornfall> hahaha, jdub
[06:46] <mornfall> great
[06:47] <apokryphos> Lathiat: it's a very nice package manager :)
[06:47] <Lathiat> and dpkg
[06:47] <apokryphos> Lathiat: it works with apt just fine
[06:47] <Hobbsee> hi again all
[06:47] <apokryphos> wb Hobbsee
[06:47] <imbrandon> wb Hobbsee
[06:47] <Hobbsee> thanks, what'd i miss?
[06:47] * Hobbsee had everything freeze.
[06:47] <mornfall> Hobbsee: small flamewar
[06:47] <apokryphos> Hobbsee: discussing the credibility of biarch/smart
[06:47] <Lathiat> Hobbsee: bickering abotyu biarch :)
[06:48] <mornfall> see, the real-world usecases for biarch are limited to proprietary software? come on
[06:48] <Hobbsee> oh darn!  flamewars are fun!
[06:48] <mornfall> you don't seriously think i should devote one hour to that
[06:48] <Hobbsee> ...to read and laugh at
[06:48] <apokryphos> mornfall: no, they're not. See the other example I gave.
[06:48] <Lathiat> no its not, it is however, a use
[06:48] *** OdyX is now known as OdyXydO.
[06:48] <apokryphos> and wine is also 32bit
[06:48] <Lathiat> and one that is important to other people, unfortunately