[23:35:35] <@kerframil> pleed: if you definition of "stable packages" is "packages which are not subjected to minor or major version upgrades" then yes, that is true.
[23:36:19] <@kerframil> astinus-work: let me know if you can think of any alternatives.
[23:37:11] <pleed> kerframil: so about 100 gentoo servers will be unmaintainable?
[23:38:56] <astinus-work> pleed: Depends on your definition of unmaintainable.
[23:39:00] <@kerframil> pleed: check the mailing list archives; there have been numerous discussions related to the topic (including large-scale maintenance).
[23:39:06] <^Willie^Laptop> kerframil: what kind of servers do we talk about in this channel ?
[23:39:10] <astinus-work> pleed: It just means you need to be careful, and not bump stuff like udev without careful consideration.
[23:39:19] <@kerframil> ^Willie^Laptop: ones running gentoo, for the most part.
[23:39:23] <astinus-work> pleed: Or you need to go a bit nuts with package.mask and watch GLSA's very carefully
[23:39:48] <pleed> astinus-work: GLSA?
[23:39:56] <^Willie^Laptop> kerframil: ok and if someone want support or information that he did not found in the man pages or whas not clear enuf ?
[23:40:04] <@kerframil> hmm, I dunno. in my previous job I ran one gentoo server for over 3 years. never had any problems. but I know how to administer Gentoo.
[23:40:39] <@kerframil> ^Willie^Laptop: then you ask a question. but this isn't a busy channel.
[23:40:46] <^Willie^Laptop> administer gentoo is not that hard ... creating setups that are never done before is an issue ..
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[23:41:19] <^Willie^Laptop> i have postfix running with clamav-milter now .. but i can tell you no one that did tell me anything  :S
[23:41:31] <^Willie^Laptop> on the end i whas happy with netbsd.org and there howto pages
[23:41:48] <^Willie^Laptop> for a gentoo server running postfix
[23:41:55] <@kerframil> milter? that's for sendmail, isn't it?
[23:42:02] <^Willie^Laptop> no also postfix
[23:42:27] <^Willie^Laptop> but when i start asking about it ppl point directly to amavisd and amavisd is not good enuf for our needs .
[23:42:37] <^Willie^Laptop> also not a milter
[23:42:58] <astinus-work> pleed: Gentoo Linux Security Announcement
[23:43:52] <@kerframil> ^Willie^Laptop: I think people rely too much on distro-specific documentation. at the end of the day, postfix is postfix.
[23:44:21] <@kerframil> fortunately, postfix is fairly well documented. I can't commend on clamav-milter because I've never used it (although I have used amavisd-new).
[23:44:49] <^Willie^Laptop> amavisd whas a bit annoying in my expiriences
[23:45:24] <^Willie^Laptop> kerframil: i had an postfix milter error yesterday where even google did came with 0 results ..
[23:46:00] <hparker> ^Willie^Laptop: that's why there's postfix-users mailing list
[23:46:17] <^Willie^Laptop> i never use mailing lists ..
[23:46:22] <^Willie^Laptop> i do not like spam
[23:46:50] <^Willie^Laptop> and when i need information i need it with in 4 hours ..
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[23:47:41] <hparker> I'm subscribed to several and don't get spammed from them... As for 4 hours, you'd be surprised how quick Victor, Ralph, or Wietse respond
[23:47:49] <^Willie^Laptop> like i`m searching 2 days now why clamav crashes ..
[23:48:02] <^Willie^Laptop> clamav   29864  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        Z    17:01   0:00 [clamav-milter] <defunct>
[23:48:10] <^Willie^Laptop> the clamav irc channel keep silence ..
[23:48:14] <hparker> Doesn't crash on any of my MTAs
[23:48:26] <astinus-work> ^Willie^: Well in my experience, if you need 4h response and don't use mailing lists, that's your own fault.  If things are that critical, you either hire staff with lots of experience, or you pay someone for a support contract.
[23:48:27] <^Willie^Laptop> this did happend yesterday afthernoon just out of da blue
[23:48:29] <hparker> I don't use it as a milter though, just a daemon
[23:48:38] <^Willie^Laptop> i did finaly manage some debug info and clam stop working
[23:49:25] <^Willie^Laptop> since then i did revert my config but still a hanging clam ..
[23:49:56] <hparker> i had a problem with it a month or three ago... Just once, I figured it was a bad set of defs or something, restarted it and hasn't been a problem since
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[23:50:26] <^Willie^Laptop> i think about rebooting the machine .. but then i need to check the machine it self if it will boot at all ..
[23:50:38] <^Willie^Laptop> the sysadmin before my time did create one big mess and never tested anything
[23:50:58] <hparker> heh.. Mine all got tested for me over the weekend... UPS is only good for so long
[23:51:07] <^Willie^Laptop> even save his bash history on our internal wiki whas to mutch work for that guy ..
[23:51:46] <^Willie^Laptop> sometimes there come email from machines where i ask my self .. wtf where is that machine then  :D
[23:52:06] <^Willie^Laptop> then you did think i have all hardware in the info base ..
[23:53:57] <^Willie^Laptop> like hunting a wifi ap .. on the end of the day i did found it  :D
[23:54:03] <^Willie^Laptop> it whas in the roof somewhere
[23:54:18] <^Willie^Laptop> roof/sealing .. where the lights hanging in
[23:55:07] hparker waddles off to the kitchen in search of more coffee and to work on the chili a bit
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[23:55:52] ^Willie^Laptop go whasting his time on our dhcp
[00:11:22] <astinus-work> dhcp/netboot is never a waste of time  :)
[00:12:15] <^Willie^Laptop> here it is ..
[00:12:23] <^Willie^Laptop> 20% is static configured ..
[00:12:31] <^Willie^Laptop> and the others via dhcp is a big mess ..
[00:13:23] <^Willie^Laptop> for no reason is the range limited to 80 nr`s .. and then the ask you to swap all machine ip`s to get some order .. yes but without downtime .. nice when the have connections open for sometimes weeks