[22:50:17] <@raidensnake> I'm suprized just for v1.2
[22:50:30] <&Mecks> 1.2?
[22:51:06] <@raidensnake> my enhancement for x264
[22:51:12] * Mecks is now known as Mecks[away]
[22:51:27] <@raidensnake> for avi
[22:51:48] <&Mecks[away]> it's the same thing that mkv?
[22:52:22] <&Mecks[away]> because it's not native right?
[22:52:33] <@raidensnake> originally yeah.
[22:52:51] <&Mecks[away]> hummm... gambiarra mode XD
[22:53:00] <@raidensnake> I ran it through and the quality is STUNNING
[22:53:25] <@raidensnake> even full screen.
[22:54:05] <@raidensnake> the video in total was well over 2GB
[22:54:10] <@raidensnake> originally.
[22:54:32] <&Mecks[away]> brb
[22:54:38] <@raidensnake> ok.
[23:02:15] <&demi`> ...
[23:02:53] <&demi`> why oh why
[23:04:06] * @Bakrog (lalalala@Pipiu.em.vc) Quit
[23:06:41] <@raidensnake> ?
[23:07:36] <&demi`> what's the point... using h264 with avi?
[23:08:18] <@raidensnake> well fact is it hold it's quality better.
[23:08:41] <&demi`> ...
[23:08:52] <&demi`> nope, it doesnt...
[23:09:15] <@raidensnake> well it has soo far the way I tuned it.
[23:09:58] <&demi`> how did you tune it?
[23:10:38] <@raidensnake> experimented with the settings.
[23:10:48] <&demi`> as far I know, the vfw interface of x264 is severely outdated
[23:11:42] <@raidensnake> yeah but it got recoded recently
[23:12:19] <&demi`> by..?
[23:12:43] <@raidensnake> you know the ffdshow codec. they recoded it.
[23:13:00] <&demi`> still
[23:13:06] <&demi`> avi has nothing to do with it
[23:13:15] <&demi`> it's just a container
[23:13:20] <&demi`> it holds and index things
[23:13:23] <&demi`> nothing more
[23:13:43] <&demi`> you can even encode your video with x264 to a raw stream
[23:13:46] <&demi`> containerless
[23:14:16] <@raidensnake> yeah only for quicktime that is.
[23:14:26] <&demi`> the only thing you'll get by encoding with the vfw interface is the lack of compatibility
[23:14:46] <&demi`> and iirc you cant even use b-pyramid with it
[23:15:08] <&demi`> what do you mean with "only for quicktime"?
[23:15:31] <@raidensnake> quicktime is pure x264 mainly
[23:15:47] <&demi`> ...
[23:15:47] <@raidensnake> in their mp4 files
[23:15:53] <&demi`> no...
[23:16:16] <&demi`> quicktime now uses mp4
[23:16:51] <&demi`> a raw stream has no index
[23:17:24] <&demi`> no container
[23:17:39] <@raidensnake> doesn't matter... all I'm saying is check the video yourself. I did what i could and the quality is impressive.
[23:18:17] <@raidensnake> I even ran the video on a p1 150ghz with 32Mb ram and a 2MB Graphics card.
[23:18:21] <@raidensnake> played perfect.
[23:18:50] <&demi`> and I'll tell you once again, it's not avi's fault
[23:19:39] <&demi`> the video card doesnt matter
[23:19:48] <&demi`> I doubt you are using cyberlink
[23:20:01] <@raidensnake> I'm running powerdvd 7.3
[23:20:13] <@raidensnake> for vista
[23:20:37] <&demi`> in fact, I think it'll be slower in avi... because of the ordering of b-frames...
[23:21:11] <@raidensnake> well I don't see amy time loss whatspever.
[23:21:16] <@raidensnake> soever*
[23:21:26] <@raidensnake> any*
[23:23:14] <&demi`> ok, enjoy your incompatibility and lower quality
[23:25:19] <@raidensnake> I'm not disputing what you are saying. all I'm asking if if you've seen the one I encoded?
[23:25:53] <&demi`> don't even need to
[23:26:46] <&demi`> have you encoded with the same options with x264 cli interface?
[23:27:58] <@raidensnake> yeah and made no difference. copaired to an mp4 file the size is smaller. but the quality is the same.#
[23:28:07] <&demi`> damn ffdshow tryouts developers
[23:28:27] <&demi`> ...
[23:29:05] <&demi`> what did you use?
[23:29:07] <&demi`> --qp?
[23:29:10] <&demi`> --crf?
[23:29:39] <&demi`> if you give a bitrate as a target, the size is the same
[23:29:47] <&demi`> if not, you are doing it wrong
[23:30:01] <&demi`> *if you give a bitrate as a target, the size will be the same
[23:31:13] <@raidensnake> true. but... all I'm saying is if you haven't seen the actual video I think you should.
[23:32:30] <&demi`> nope, I dont
[23:32:49] <&demi`> this is like muxing a vorbis audio file to avi 
[23:33:06] <&demi`> it's evil
[23:33:12] <&demi`> and so damn wrong
[23:33:32] <@raidensnake> ahh but there's the thing... it's not vorbis at all.
[23:34:20] <&Mecks[away]> I'll see the video
[23:34:26] <&demi`> doesnt matter, its still avc
[23:34:51] <&demi`> the vfw interface was removed for a reason
[23:35:33] <@raidensnake> if that were the case how come I've seen loads of x264 avi files?
[23:35:35] <&demi`> not because "oh lolz, I'm pengvado and I don't want anyone encoding with x264 on virtualdub"
[23:35:53] <&demi`> because people are stupid?
[23:37:20] <@raidensnake> actually not from what I've seen.
[23:37:48] <&demi`> you should lurk moar then
[23:38:16] <@raidensnake> I do... on a daily basis.
[23:38:46] <&demi`> not enough then
[23:40:09] <&demi`> which serious group you saw releasing something in avc inside an avi file?
[23:40:26] <&demi`> think about it
[23:40:27] <@raidensnake> I've seen loads actually.
[23:40:32] <&demi`> name one
[23:40:35] <&demi`> only one
[23:40:42] <@raidensnake> Live-Evil very well respected
[23:41:01] <@raidensnake> even dattebayo also have.
[23:41:06] <&demi`> dattebayo?
[23:41:15] * &Gotstaf (~gustavohm@Rizon-185218F9.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:41:16] <&demi`> I said a serious group
[23:41:26] <@raidensnake> they are serious...
[23:41:28] <&demi`> L-E is lame
[23:41:35] <&demi`> nope, they aren't
[23:41:45] <&demi`> it's full of noobs
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[%] End of /whois for raidensnake
[23:42:47] <&Mecks[away]> so... it's pointless use x264 in avi
[23:42:52] <&demi`> well
[23:43:00] <&demi`> just go to #darkhold
[23:43:09] <&demi`> it's an encoding channel
[23:43:13] <&demi`> @ irc.dairc.us
[23:43:24] <&demi`> full of serious encoders
[23:43:28] <@raidensnake> I was there 4 years ago.
[23:43:52] <&demi`> they will explain better why you shouldnt be enconding to avi
[23:44:06] <&demi`> my english is extremely rusty, damn
[23:44:11] <@raidensnake> well if that's the case why do soo many people use avi then?
[23:44:27] * Mecks[away] is now known as Mecks
[23:44:33] <&demi`> because avi was the first container?
[23:44:41] <&demi`> created at 1993 by microsoft
[23:44:48] <&demi`> when it introduced vfw
[23:44:53] <@raidensnake> actually it was asx
[23:44:57] <&demi`> asf?
[23:45:05] <@raidensnake> and asf
[23:45:14] <&demi`> you certain?
[23:45:32] <@raidensnake> yeah cause Iooked it up a while back.
[23:46:01] <&demi`> hm, dont think so...
[23:46:07] <&demi`> asf was meant for streaming
[23:46:54] <&demi`> ah, avi was created in November 1992
[23:47:31] <&demi`> well, if you join #darkhold
[23:47:37] <&demi`> you can even ask pengvado
[23:47:51] <&demi`> why he removed the vfw interface from the svn
[23:47:59] <&Mecks> the address is right?
[23:48:12] <&demi`> he's there, and he is the current mantainer of x264
[23:48:23] <&demi`> irc.pacifica.dairc.us
[23:48:27] <&demi`> try this one
[23:50:45] <@raidensnake> server is busy it says here.
[23:51:25] <@raidensnake> error 550
[23:51:46] <&demi`> uh?
[23:52:14] <&demi`> /server -m irc.pacifica.dairc.us -j #darkhold
[23:53:20] <@raidensnake> same error 550: server busy
[23:53:51] <&demi`> hum
[23:53:57] <&demi`> irc.deltaanime.net
[23:53:59] <&demi`> try this
[23:54:17] <&demi`> btw
[23:54:18] <&Mecks> that a quite insteresting page of encode
[23:54:19] <&demi`> [23:44:11] <@raidensnake> well if that's the case why do soo many people use avi then?
[23:54:20] * Bakrog (lalalala@Rizon-E4296953.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) has joined #sg-ops
[23:54:20] * Bakrog (lalalala@Rizon-E4296953.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br) Quit (Changing hosts)
[23:54:20] * Bakrog (lalalala@Pipiu.em.vc) has joined #sg-ops
[23:54:20] * [^_^] sets mode: +o Bakrog
[23:54:23] <&demi`> this question
[23:54:50] <&demi`> is like asking, "if h264 is so good, why are there so many people still using xvid?"
[23:55:04] <&demi`> *it's
[23:55:07] <&Mecks> comodity
[23:55:19] <&demi`> exactly
[23:55:36] <&demi`> *commodity
[23:55:46] <&Mecks> yep yep ^^
[23:55:49] <@raidensnake> the way i see it if you have existing stuff find more than 1 way to use it...
[23:56:17] <&demi`> [23:55:49] <@raidensnake> the way i see it if you have existing stuff find more than 1 correct way to use it...
[23:56:19] <&demi`> fixed
[23:56:30] <&Mecks> I can see a avi file with x264 in a DVD?
[23:56:36] <&demi`> nope you cant
[23:56:51] <&demi`> no one expectas an h264 stream in avi
[23:56:57] <@raidensnake> you know why? cause it's MPEG 2
[23:57:06] <&demi`> exactly
[23:57:10] <&demi`> there are standards
[23:57:23] <&demi`> and what they say?
[23:57:28] <&demi`> use mp4 or mkv
[23:57:54] <@raidensnake> but a lot of them use neither cause people's systems can't handle those formats.
[23:58:03] <&demi`> mp4 is will play on a blu-ray/hdvd player
[23:58:08] <&demi`> -is
[23:58:26] <&demi`> yeah
[23:58:50] <&demi`> but encoding to avi isn't the way 
[23:59:14] <&demi`> because it may cause several issues
[23:59:29] <&demi`> as I said, no one, expects h264 in avi
[00:00:12] <@raidensnake> neither do they expect mp4's or mkv/s either. 
[00:00:20] <&demi`> actually, they do
[00:00:43] <&demi`> mp4 was meant to contain an h264 stream
[00:00:47] <&demi`> and aac
[00:00:51] <&demi`> and ttxt as subs
[00:01:03] <@raidensnake> which is quicktime based.
[00:01:13] <&demi`> that's why you cant mux ac3, vorbis, etc
[00:01:16] <&demi`> yes, and?
[00:01:28] <&demi`> vfw is quicktime based too, you know?
[00:02:02] <&Mecks> er... vfw? i forgot...
[00:02:07] <&demi`> video for windows
[00:02:17] <&demi`> an ancient framework
[00:02:35] <&demi`> that only let you access frames on a linear way
[00:02:38] <&demi`> and one at a time
[00:03:05] <&Mecks> lol
[00:03:57] <@raidensnake> vfw is more stable than quicktime as it works best on even the oldest of computers. quicktime is more power hungry even requires certain processor strings. like SSE3 that a lot of systems don't have.
[00:04:52] <&demi`> :facepalm:
[00:05:11] <&demi`> you are talking about the quicktime player 
[00:05:23] <@raidensnake> yeah and the formats it uses as well.
[00:05:26] <&Mecks> but who still have a old computer?
[00:05:27] <&demi`> I'm talking about the quicktime framework
[00:06:04] <&demi`> the decoding speed has nothing to do with the framework nor the container
[00:06:17] <&demi`> what matters is the decoder
[00:06:25] <&demi`> nothing more
[00:06:34] <@raidensnake> and the hardware the system has also.
[00:06:39] <&demi`> of course
[00:06:41] <&demi`> :)
[00:07:17] <@raidensnake> now you wonder why i exxperiment with the existing stuff... to make it backwards compatible...
[00:07:27] <&demi`> the cpu usage of a container per se is like 0,5% of a pentium 4
[00:07:37] <&demi`> NO
[00:07:40] <@raidensnake> cause there are a lot of old systems. and i know quite a few who can't afford a new one.
[00:07:48] <&demi`> you aren't making it backward compatible
[00:07:53] <&demi`> you are breaking it
[00:08:08] * Gotstaf|AWAY (~gustavohm@Rizon-185218F9.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) has joined #sg-ops
[00:08:38] <@raidensnake> well i know for a fact all the mp4 stuff none of the older systems can even handle without massive lags.
[00:08:45] <&demi`> why the fuck cant you understand...
[00:09:06] <&demi`> it's the stream that'll will make your video lag
[00:09:18] <&demi`> it doesnt matter if its in avi, mp4 or mkv
[00:09:24] <&demi`> because they do nothing
[00:09:40] <&demi`> they only index your frames
[00:10:36] <&demi`> and other things too, but they are irrelevant
[00:11:31] <@raidensnake> but hardware is though when playing it. graphics cards, system memory and processor speeds too are major factors.
[00:11:55] <&demi`> yeah
[00:12:03] <&demi`> but not because of the container
[00:12:22] <&demi`> encoding to avi will not make it easier to decode
[00:12:32] <@raidensnake> no but you can optimise the format it's encoded in to get it to work better.
[00:12:44] <&demi`> yes, you can
[00:13:17] <@raidensnake> which is what I do as part of my research.
[00:13:33] <&demi`> you can "deoptimise" x264 by disabling cabac, lowering the number of reference frames to 1 and disabling b-frames, and then it will play in a P3 800MHz