--- Log opened Sun Nov 18 16:42:49 2007
16:42 < envirocbr> Hey man
16:42 < envirocbr> I am doing your thing now
16:42 < envirocbr> logging with IRC
16:43 < envirocbr> I wonder how fast it will fill up my drive :\
16:43 < envirocbr> but I can always tar it
16:43 < envirocbr> :)
16:43 < envirocbr> well I guess that would not compress it much eh?
16:43 < envirocbr> bzip
16:43 < envirocbr> ?
16:44 < tenthirteen> It's plain text
16:44 < tenthirteen> not much
16:44 < tenthirteen> there's little value in logging
16:45 < tenthirteen> There was value when it was our net
16:45 < envirocbr> our net?
16:45 < tenthirteen> and we had to screen out repeat offenders
16:45 < tenthirteen> Yeh we had our own for a while
16:46 < envirocbr> really?
16:46 < envirocbr> what was it called?
16:46 < tenthirteen> sure
16:46 < tenthirteen> U-Chat
16:46 < envirocbr> oh
16:46 < envirocbr> what happened 
16:46 < envirocbr> too costly?
16:46 < envirocbr> What kinda connection did you have?
16:46 < tenthirteen> didn't cost much of anything
16:46 < tenthirteen> It was co-loc'ed
16:46 < tenthirteen> in Tulsa
16:46 < tenthirteen> 3 servers
16:47 < tenthirteen> recruitment wasn't on the list of fun things to do for any of our users
16:47 < tenthirteen> so it remained a net that was done right for a change but stayed out of sight
16:47 < envirocbr> ah
16:48 < tenthirteen> and us jaded ppl that have been in the IRC scene for a decade plus didn't want to go places and talk it up
16:48 < envirocbr> You could not run one on a Cable connection right?
16:48 < tenthirteen> depends on how stealthy you are
16:48 < tenthirteen> if you use alternative ports and make them well-known
16:48 < tenthirteen> you can evade the minders
16:49 < tenthirteen> I think it'd be a better idea to encapsulate server links and spread users thin
16:50 < tenthirteen> and get some servers running on slave boxes on legitimate connections
16:50 < tenthirteen> but rather than being open like that I've trended toward privacy lately
16:51 < tenthirteen> so instead of running open IRC nets where ppl can share porn or music or dvd rips leaving me holding the bag
16:52 < tenthirteen> I'm more interested in assembling secure communication
16:52 < tenthirteen> so I was going with a IM server that required SSL and then using various encryption schemes and encapsulation on that with large keys and complexity
16:52 < tenthirteen> just to frustrate those that wanted to tune in
16:53 < tenthirteen> after running just about every IM protocol out there, I (like google) settled on XMPP (Jabber) as the best
16:54 < tenthirteen> I need to bring my jabberd back up
16:54 < tenthirteen> with local group chat
16:54 < envirocbr> hmmm
16:54 < envirocbr> more to it than I ever imagines
16:54 < envirocbr> d
16:55 < tenthirteen> if I get it working the way I like it perhaps I'll put it somewhere legit
16:55 < tenthirteen> IRC?
16:55 < tenthirteen> or IM
16:55 < envirocbr> IRC
16:55 < tenthirteen> IRC is far more complex than it was ever designed to be
16:55 < envirocbr> oh
16:55 < tenthirteen> be glad you haven't imagined it
16:55 < envirocbr> I figured it became more complex as time went by
16:55 < tenthirteen> coupled with the politics
16:55 < envirocbr> I never got to know the old IRC of the 80's
16:55 < tenthirteen> yeh but it's been overkill
16:55 < envirocbr> I was not old enough
16:56 < envirocbr> I did not get into IRC until I was 14 back in 1999
16:56 < tenthirteen> well if you go connect to EFnet or IRCnet, that has remained unchanged
16:56 < tenthirteen> no services, no nick registration, evil types out to get you
16:56 < tenthirteen> essentially the wild west
16:56 < envirocbr> oh
16:56 < tenthirteen> no one to help you maintain your channel
16:56 < envirocbr> What do you mean evil types out to get me
16:56 < tenthirteen> ppl will overtake it on a split and ban you from it
16:57 < envirocbr> whoa
16:57 < tenthirteen> ppl just trolling waiting to run zero-day exploits on your IRC client or system
16:57 < tenthirteen> every new user that joins runs a port scan and attempts to brute force your sshd
16:57 < tenthirteen> from pakistan or indonesia
16:58 < envirocbr> oh
16:58 < envirocbr> so stay with the more secure networks
16:58 < tenthirteen> that's the stuff that overflowed onto DALnet and killed it because it came across as family and n00b friendly
16:59 < tenthirteen> freenode is probably the most locked down net with all of that handled pretty efficiently
16:59 < tenthirteen> but it lost some of the fun by doing that
16:59 < tenthirteen> you should be able to use PG-13 language somewhere on here without getting banned
17:00 < tenthirteen> even this channel, not having an official purpose or supporting a free project is frowned upon
17:00 < tenthirteen> which is why I made it free-advice
17:00 < tenthirteen> it's GPL friendly
17:01 < tenthirteen> heh
17:01 < envirocbr> ah
17:01 < envirocbr> #socialities
17:01 < envirocbr> is not a purpose channel
17:01 < envirocbr> that would fill my HD in a few days
17:01 < tenthirteen> yeh they don't want anything non-geek
17:01 < envirocbr> all the shit in there
17:01 < envirocbr> I was thinking about connecting back to Dalnet
17:02 < envirocbr> ChatJunkies is a bunch of lame ass geeks
17:02 < tenthirteen> if anything I'd go back to the wild west somewhere
17:02 < envirocbr> Efnet
17:02 < tenthirteen> undernet efnet or a smaller one
17:03 < tenthirteen> I've been on 2600 forever as well but I don't participate much
17:03 < tenthirteen> now that's a net that you'll make FBI lists by being on
17:03 < tenthirteen> at least back in tha day
17:04 < envirocbr> oh
17:04 < envirocbr> I used to be on there
17:04 < tenthirteen> filesharing and porn has drawn attn away from black and gray hatters
17:04 < envirocbr> back in 1999
17:04 < tenthirteen> when you were 14
17:04 < envirocbr> yes
17:04 < envirocbr> I was heavy into wanting to learn
17:05 < envirocbr> and I got a lot of info from those guys
17:05 < tenthirteen> yeh I started doing this talking to ppl in a scrolling text window before I was 10
17:05 < tenthirteen> and it hasn't changed much since
17:05 < tenthirteen> except I don't have to wait 10 sec for the screen to refresh after every line
17:06 < envirocbr> lol
17:06 < envirocbr> I will bbl
17:06 < tenthirteen> which is why I still to this day tend to spit out a paragraph at a time
17:06 < envirocbr> I have to get furniture for my mother
17:06 < tenthirteen> then wait for the same
17:06 < tenthirteen> because I didn't have to watch it update until I got it all out blindly
17:06 < tenthirteen> ok
17:21 < tenthirteen> >> Electric_Manor-02-T_Tauri-Joy_to_the_World__Pancake_for_Every_One_Mix.ogg
17:30 < tenthirteen> >> Eighty_Mile_Beach--There_are_No_Right_Angles_Found_in_Nature__Thievery_Corporation_Remix.mp3
17:36 < tenthirteen> >> Thievery_Corporation--The_Lagos_Communique.mp3
19:21 < tenthirteen> >> Nightmares_on_Wax-Carboot_Soul-01-Les_Nuits.mp3
22:34 < envirocbr> Whats up
22:35 < envirocbr> so tenthirteen If you were 10 years old on IRC
22:35 < envirocbr> and you have been on since the 80's
22:35 < envirocbr> your in your 30's?
22:35 < envirocbr> Mid 30's?
23:53 < tenthirteen> me?
23:53 < tenthirteen> I just happened to turn 30
23:53 < tenthirteen> <-- on 10/13
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14:51 < envirocbr> oh
14:51 < envirocbr> Still really young
14:51 < envirocbr> memtest86+ is the shit
16:00 < tenthirteen> when you have bad ram or are trying to rule it out yes
16:00 < tenthirteen> and yes i'm not ancient
16:02 < tenthirteen> not too far from you and some of my ppl are your age or younger.. really not significant unless you're old-old and act that way
16:02 < tenthirteen> I'm not married, I don't have any kids
16:03 < tenthirteen> I still spend large amounts of time engaging in dangerous and extreme sports
16:03 < tenthirteen> am still in school
16:03 < tenthirteen> etc
18:54 < envirocbr> hmm
18:54 < envirocbr> FUCK THIS LAPTOP
18:55 < tenthirteen> why
18:55 < envirocbr> POS
18:55 < envirocbr> driving me crazy
18:55 < tenthirteen> which one is it
18:55 < envirocbr> bad sectors in the HD
18:55 < envirocbr> My employees
18:55 < envirocbr> she tells me
18:55 < tenthirteen> not the 'wifes'
18:55 < envirocbr> "I have Norton Utilities and stuff, why would this happen all of a sudden?"
18:55 < envirocbr> NO
18:55 < envirocbr> I take care of my equipment
18:55 < tenthirteen> what is it
18:56 < tenthirteen> another dell?
18:56 < envirocbr> HP
18:56 < envirocbr> Celeron M
18:56 < envirocbr> I have to load Fedora now cause I think my Mandriva Live CD is fucked
18:57 < tenthirteen> not difficult to check
18:57 < tenthirteen> put it in the drive
18:57 < tenthirteen> say it's /dev/scd0
18:57 < tenthirteen> don't mount it
18:57 < tenthirteen> md5sum /dev/scd0
18:57 < tenthirteen> and you'll have the checksum on the ISO
18:58 < tenthirteen> compare it to what's on the mirrors
18:58 < envirocbr> ahh too much work for me
18:58 < envirocbr> althought that is advice I am going ot keep for the future
18:59 < envirocbr> I did not know that I could check the md5sum on a Live CD Bootable disk
18:59 < tenthirteen> any data disc
18:59 < envirocbr> I think my 8G USB drive is shot
18:59 < envirocbr> I did not pay for it
18:59 < envirocbr> these assholes did
18:59 < envirocbr> www.expressconsolidation.org
18:59 < tenthirteen> I remember
18:59 < envirocbr> just like they paid for this computer
19:00 < envirocbr> keyboard
19:00 < envirocbr> mouse
19:00 < envirocbr> you get the idea
19:00 < tenthirteen> yes
19:00 < envirocbr> usb 3-1 device descriptor read/64, error -110
19:00 < envirocbr> usb 3-1: device descriptor read/64, error -110
19:00 < envirocbr> what is that
19:00 < envirocbr> ?
19:01 < envirocbr> I now believe firmly that drive is fucked
19:01 < envirocbr> nothing ever good comes out of something free
19:01 < envirocbr> LOL...the irony in that is too funny
19:02 < envirocbr> Can I burn...oh shit
19:02 < envirocbr> LOL
19:02 < envirocbr> I was about to ask if I could burn a CD with a Live OS
19:02 < envirocbr> lol....of course not
19:02 < tenthirteen> you can
19:03 < envirocbr> If it is loaded to memory
19:03 < envirocbr> right?
19:03 < tenthirteen> it's complicated
19:03 < tenthirteen> and not worth it
19:03 < envirocbr> I figured
19:03 < envirocbr> I guess I can scp the files 
19:03 < envirocbr> to the other laptop
19:03 < envirocbr> and burn them there
19:04 < envirocbr> How can I view the ntfs partition?
19:04 < envirocbr> This sucks so bad
19:04 < envirocbr> 512Mb of memory
19:04 < envirocbr> means this is slow as hell
19:05 < tenthirteen> I have 512 on my main sys still
19:05 < tenthirteen> livecd on 128 or 256 is lame but 512 isn't that bad
19:06 < envirocbr> it is okay
19:06 < envirocbr> so how do I view this ntfs partition?
19:06 < envirocbr> I ran df
19:06 < envirocbr> and did not find it
19:06 < tenthirteen> what livecd are you using
19:06 < envirocbr> fedora
19:06 < tenthirteen> and does it have ntfs support
19:06 < tenthirteen> you probably don't know and neither do I
19:07 < tenthirteen> attempt to mount the partition manually
19:07 < envirocbr> grrrr
19:07 < envirocbr> I sound like a newb
19:07 < envirocbr> but how?
19:07 < tenthirteen> you need a mount point, can be temporary, on the tree
19:08 < tenthirteen> mkdir /tmp/thisisgay
19:08 < tenthirteen> mount /dev/pathtopartition /tmp/thisisgay
19:08 < envirocbr> Okay I get that 
19:09 < envirocbr> but I cannot find the ntfs partition
19:09 < tenthirteen> to determine the drive geometry use fdisk or cfdisk if it's on the livecd
19:09 < envirocbr> I ran
19:09 < envirocbr> df -ah
19:09 < tenthirteen> it won't show up if it's not mounted
19:09 < envirocbr> so use fdisk
19:10 < tenthirteen> fdisk -l /dev/hda
19:10 < tenthirteen> Disk /dev/hda: 80.0 GB, 80026361856 bytes
19:10 < tenthirteen> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9729 cylinders
19:10 < tenthirteen> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
19:10 < tenthirteen> Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
19:10 < tenthirteen> /dev/hda1   *           1        2310    18555043+   7  HPFS/NTFS
19:10 < tenthirteen> /dev/hda2            2311        2559     2000092+  82  Linux swap / Solaris
19:10 < tenthirteen> /dev/hda3            2560        6081    28290465   83  Linux
19:10 < tenthirteen> /dev/hda4            6082        9729    29302560   a6  OpenBSD
19:10 < tenthirteen> then if I wanted to mount hda1
19:10 < tenthirteen> mount /dev/hda1 /tmp/thisisgay
19:10 < tenthirteen> ls -l /tmp/thisisgay
19:10 < envirocbr> tenthirteen: I ran fdisk -l /dev/hda
19:10 < envirocbr> and nothing
19:10 < tenthirteen> could be a SATA disk
19:11 < envirocbr> Unable to open /dev/hda
19:11 < tenthirteen> so it'd be /dev/sda
19:11 < envirocbr> AHH
19:11 < envirocbr> :D
19:11 < envirocbr> Stupid me
19:11 < envirocbr> I fogot the laptops now use SATA
19:11 < tenthirteen> most yes
19:12 < tenthirteen> making your temp mount point in /mnt instead of /tmp would be more orthodox
19:13 < envirocbr> mounting
19:13 < envirocbr> ah shit forgot to tell it FS type
19:13 < envirocbr> isn't it
19:13 < envirocbr> -f type=ntfs?
19:13 < tenthirteen> -t ntfs
19:13 < envirocbr> ah
19:13 < tenthirteen> -t type device dir
19:14 < tenthirteen> you'll know right away if ntfs isn't supported
19:14 < envirocbr> where do I put the switch?
19:14 < tenthirteen> mount -t ntfs /dev/sda1 /mnt/gay
19:15 < tenthirteen> mount -t ntfs -o ro /dev/sda1 /mnt/gay
19:15 < envirocbr> unknown file system
19:15 < tenthirteen> try
19:15 < tenthirteen> modprobe ntfs
19:15 < tenthirteen> then again
19:15 < tenthirteen> if the module isn't found shoot the fedora found
19:15 < tenthirteen> because they're the ones afraid of supporting proprietary things like NTFS and MP#
19:16 < tenthirteen> *MP3
19:16 < envirocbr> Module ntfs not found
19:16 < tenthirteen> they didn't put it in there
19:16 < tenthirteen> lame
19:16 < envirocbr> I firgured there was a reason I hated fedora
19:17 < tenthirteen> see I see that as more work than it needs to be
19:17 < tenthirteen> because I could fix that quickly in gentoo
19:18 < tenthirteen> it's about choice not optimization
19:18 < tenthirteen> being able to support NTFS but not including every ancient driver that no one owns any hardware for
19:20 < envirocbr> Isee
19:20 < tenthirteen> sure sometimes you're missing something in the kernel or in your installed software collection that you have to add later but you know it's there and things you'd normally be forced to install aren't in there
19:20 < envirocbr> that is what GEntoo is all about
19:20 < envirocbr> I see
19:20 < tenthirteen> yes
19:20 < envirocbr> so basically it is like Rolling your own kernel?
19:20 < envirocbr> yes?
19:20 < envirocbr> or different?
19:21 < tenthirteen> I don't have KDE or GNOME installed, but I have a limited QT toolkit rig and all of GTK so I run GTK/GNOME apps and some KDE apps without running any of KDE/GNOME
19:21 < tenthirteen> You can configure your own kernel or you can use the generic one
19:21 < envirocbr> ah
19:21 < envirocbr> what is GTK?
19:22 < tenthirteen> the GIMP toolkit, the graphics kit that gives all the GTK apps a similar look
19:22 < tenthirteen> and QT with SVG gives the KDE apps their look
19:23 < tenthirteen> QT had license problems until a few years ago
19:23 < tenthirteen> and wasn't completely free
19:23 < tenthirteen> which made hardcore ppl avoid it
19:23 < tenthirteen> and it also tends to be the choice of n00bs
19:23 < tenthirteen> because there's a limited scope of apps available when compared to GTK apps
19:24 < envirocbr> Going to dinner
19:24 < envirocbr> bbl
19:24 < tenthirteen> but the KDE types usually don't get in too deep so they don't notice for a long time
--- Log closed Mon Nov 19 19:34:26 2007
--- Log opened Mon Nov 19 19:34:29 2007
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21:30 < envirocbr> Took a shit and I feel GREAT!
21:30 < envirocbr> :P
21:39  * envirocbr wished ten would hang out in #mandriva
21:39 < envirocbr> or even FrankieShoelaces 
--- Log closed Mon Nov 19 22:07:35 2007
--- Log opened Mon Nov 19 22:07:39 2007
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22:12 < FrankieShoelaces> i haven't used mandriva in years
22:12 < FrankieShoelaces> i used it back when it was mandrake
22:14 < tenthirteen> what did I miss
22:15 < FrankieShoelaces> 21:33 < envirocbr> Took a shit and I feel GREAT!
22:15 < FrankieShoelaces> 21:33 < envirocbr> :P
22:15 < FrankieShoelaces> 21:41  * envirocbr wished ten would hang out in #mandriva
22:15 < FrankieShoelaces> 21:42 < envirocbr> or even FrankieShoelaces 
22:17 < tenthirteen> heh I was in there long ago
22:17 < tenthirteen> let's see who's still there
22:17 < FrankieShoelaces> haha
22:17 < FrankieShoelaces> i just joined too
22:18 < tenthirteen> no one
22:18 < tenthirteen> that used to be there
22:18 < tenthirteen> they're all on #gentoo, ##freebsd, #archlinux, #netbsd
22:19 < tenthirteen> what's the matter with his linksys
22:19 < tenthirteen> I don't want to ask in there I'll get lectured on what a router is
22:21 < FrankieShoelaces> why use linksys when you can use mapquest.  it will tell you the best route :P
22:21 < envirocbr> I think you will help
22:21 < envirocbr> LMAO
22:22 < tenthirteen> indeed
22:22 < tenthirteen> I could also do some woodworking
22:22 < envirocbr> lol
22:22 < envirocbr> moonie is a smart person
22:22 < envirocbr> but does not talk much anymore
22:23 < envirocbr> tenthirteen: I am so fucked
22:23 < envirocbr> what the hell is wrong with this thing
22:23 < envirocbr> I just changed my port to 1337
22:24 < envirocbr> and did not update the forwarding tables
22:24 < envirocbr> still does not work
22:24 < envirocbr> however I never updated bethany's and I can get in just fine
22:27 < envirocbr> what do you think?
22:27 < tenthirteen> uhm
22:28 < tenthirteen> tell me the basics of what we're doing 
22:28 < envirocbr> I am trying to scp files from the pos laptop that I am trying to fix...
22:28 < envirocbr> I setup my box with sshd
22:29 < envirocbr> and sshd_config is setup to use port 1337
22:29 < envirocbr> I stoped and started the sshd
22:29 < envirocbr> I went into my router and setup ssh 1337 TCP to  192.168.15.100
22:29 < envirocbr> and nothing happens
22:30 < envirocbr> I changed the settings on the router
22:30 < envirocbr> to something different and still nothing
22:30 < tenthirteen> the other machine is outside the LAN?
22:30 < tenthirteen> or they're both on the LAN
22:30 < envirocbr> both inside
22:30 < envirocbr> all three are inside the lan
22:31 < tenthirteen> well the port forwarding shouldn't have any effect locally should it
22:31 < envirocbr> maybe
22:31 < tenthirteen> that should be for external only and internally it should just be a switch
22:31 < envirocbr> oh
22:31 < tenthirteen> on the sys that you changed the sshd_config on
22:31 < envirocbr> ssh -p 1337
22:32 < envirocbr> yeah
22:32 < tenthirteen> netstat -l 
22:32 < tenthirteen> on that sys to make sure it's listening on 1337
22:33 < envirocbr> http://pastebin.ca/790163
22:34 < envirocbr> you see it is listening
22:35 < envirocbr> you should see this fag Zoo in #mandriva
22:37 < tenthirteen> I was on the phone sorry
22:37 < tenthirteen> ok it's listening.. do you use iptables
--- Log closed Mon Nov 19 22:38:27 2007
--- Log opened Mon Nov 19 22:38:30 2007
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22:39 < tenthirteen> jesus
22:39 < tenthirteen> I couldn't deal with #mandriva
22:39 < tenthirteen> without drinking continuously
22:39 < envirocbr> Fucking Linksys router ALWAYS has to be setup
22:39 < envirocbr> What is wrong with Mandriva?
22:39 < tenthirteen> the n00b infestation
22:40 < envirocbr> Ah
22:40 < envirocbr> You were a n00b at one time
22:40 < envirocbr> :P
22:41 < envirocbr> nothing at all is working
22:41 < tenthirteen> perhaps, I'm still a n00b on plenty of things
22:41 < tenthirteen> but I don't announce it or blog it on IRC, I RTFM
22:41 < envirocbr> Well I know that your no n00b at ssh
22:41 < envirocbr> lol
22:42 < tenthirteen> or hack on it repeatedly on my own
22:42 < envirocbr> This is fucking annoying ssh
22:42 < tenthirteen> until I know it inside out
22:42 < tenthirteen> then still don't say much about it
22:42 < tenthirteen> it's probably not ssh
22:42 < envirocbr> Really
22:42 < envirocbr> router?
22:42 < tenthirteen> so you checked and ensured it was running
22:42 < envirocbr> cause I can get into B's computer
22:42 < envirocbr> see pastebin
22:42 < tenthirteen> now did you make sure it isn't firewalled
22:43 < tenthirteen> on that system itself, presumably from MCC
22:43 < envirocbr> my box or the gay laptop?
22:43 < envirocbr> MCC is horrible
22:43 < tenthirteen> what sys has sshd running
22:43 < tenthirteen> yours?
22:43 < envirocbr> yes
22:43 < tenthirteen> then yes yours
22:43 < tenthirteen> iptables -L
22:44 < envirocbr> how do I check for this firewall that I did not want in the first place?
22:44 < tenthirteen> as root
22:44 < tenthirteen> make sure it's not walled
22:44 < tenthirteen> just what I said
22:44 < envirocbr> okay
22:44 < envirocbr> a lot of shit
22:44 < envirocbr> should I grep something?
22:45 < envirocbr> http://pastebin.ca/790166
22:47 < envirocbr> see anything?
22:50 < envirocbr> FUCKING SHOREWALL
22:55 < envirocbr> That was what was stopping me
22:55 < envirocbr> Why would you even want a freaking firewall on your computer when You have a firewall allready up and running
22:56 < tenthirteen> because it's good practice
22:56 < envirocbr> two firewalls
22:57 < tenthirteen> you don't want to bet everything on that linksys
22:57 < tenthirteen> firewalls on every system at every level
22:57 < tenthirteen> and access control on every system as well
22:57 < envirocbr> you weren't going to help me just earlier or you were testing me?
22:57 < tenthirteen> ?
22:57 < envirocbr> o.O
22:57 < tenthirteen> what are you talking about
22:57 < tenthirteen> I am cooking food and walking in and out
22:57 < envirocbr> ah
22:57 < envirocbr> you eat?
22:59 < tenthirteen> occasionally
22:59 < envirocbr> OMG her My Documents file is LARGE
22:59 < envirocbr> REALLY large
23:00 < tenthirteen> when my RTG runs down
23:00 < envirocbr> RTG?
23:00 < tenthirteen> what else is REALLY large of hers
23:00 < envirocbr> lol...she is rather short....and no she does not have large boobs....she is not Bethany
23:00 < envirocbr> :)
23:02 < envirocbr> juding by past conversations you live with friends...college dorm?
23:02 < tenthirteen> no I live with the E
23:03 < envirocbr> E?
23:03 < envirocbr> E.T?
23:03 < tenthirteen> I never did the college on-campus thing
23:03 < envirocbr> oh
23:03 < tenthirteen> I live in a 4 BR place on 3/4 of an acre
23:03 < tenthirteen> in an upscale area by a country club
23:03 < envirocbr> by yourself?
23:03 < tenthirteen> with the E
23:03 < envirocbr> E?
23:04 < tenthirteen> yes my GF
23:04 < envirocbr> What does E stand for?
23:04 < tenthirteen> that's classified
23:04 < envirocbr> oh
23:04 < envirocbr> okay
23:04 < tenthirteen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator
23:05 < tenthirteen> she's 25 and another irish-princess
23:05 < tenthirteen> highly irish name
23:05 < envirocbr> Ah
23:05 < envirocbr> well there is only one TRUE irish-princess
23:05 < envirocbr> that is Bethany
23:06 < envirocbr> :)
23:06 < envirocbr> FUCKING LIARS
23:06 < envirocbr> my employee tells me
23:06 < envirocbr> "I don't DL illegal stuff"
23:06 < envirocbr> I just found illegal downloads 
23:07 < envirocbr> I wish she would tell me this up front
23:08 < envirocbr> you like U2?
23:10 < tenthirteen> yes i've been to several show
23:10 < tenthirteen> *s
23:11 < tenthirteen> in Chicago, Cleveland, somewhere else
23:11 < envirocbr> I guess everyone likes them except me
23:11 < tenthirteen> probably
23:12 < tenthirteen> I tend to like the songs of theirs that do not become radio hits
23:12 < tenthirteen> B-sides, other album tracks
23:12 < envirocbr> those are sometimes hidden treasures
23:13 < tenthirteen> yes that's why the MP3 generation is lame and killing the music scene
23:14 < envirocbr> you mean downloaders
23:14 < envirocbr> the ones who steal music
23:14 < envirocbr> IMO music today is pure shit
23:14 < envirocbr> at least the secular scene
23:15 < envirocbr> her My Documents is allready 7 gigs
23:15 < envirocbr> I don
23:15 < envirocbr> 't
23:15  * FrankieShoelaces bullets the blue sky
23:16 < envirocbr> even know how I am going to comrpess this to save it
23:16 < envirocbr> Why you shootin?
23:16  * envirocbr farts
23:16 < envirocbr> Ever fart a really bad one and you almost make yourself faint?
23:17 < envirocbr> I surprise myself that something that horrible is made inside of me
23:18 < FrankieShoelaces> not me
23:18 < envirocbr> I never had gas up until about 2 years ago
23:18 < envirocbr> now everything gives me gas
23:19 < envirocbr> even water
--- Day changed Tue Nov 20 2007
00:06 < tenthirteen> fantastic
00:06 < tenthirteen> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
00:07 < tenthirteen>  /dev/hdb4              92G   87G   72M 100% /mnt/documents
00:07 < tenthirteen> back that up beeyotch
04:27 -!- tenthirteen [n=ten13@unaffiliated/tenthirteen] has quit ["."]
06:38 -!- tenthirteen [n=ten13@unaffiliated/tenthirteen] has joined #free-advice
17:02  * tenthirteen tosses a CS canister into #free-advice 
17:42 < tenthirteen> where is everyone
18:13 -!- [STND-IDL] [i=_STONED-@bb-87-81-118-106.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #free-advice
18:34 -!- [STND-IDL] is now known as nickx2
18:34 -!- nickx2 is now known as nick32
18:46 < tenthirteen> sup 
18:58 < tenthirteen> nick32: what have you ended up doing with your 64 box
18:58 < tenthirteen> is it still running XP 32
19:00 < nick32> yes
19:01 < nick32> i have a constant headache enough as it is without worrying about my computer.
19:01 < tenthirteen> I hear that
19:01 < tenthirteen> I haven't been able to fix a lot of computer things because of constant BS
19:02 < nick32> My computer works currently.
19:02 < nick32> Why break it trying to make it better?
19:14 < nick32> I am going to bed, i can hope i do not arise in the morning but experience tells me this will no doubt happen.
19:14 < nick32> Goodnight.
19:19 < tenthirteen> k
19:33 < tenthirteen> >> Rain_Man--07--Hans_Zimmer--Leaving_Wallbrook__On_the_Road.ogg
19:37 < tenthirteen> >> Crosby_Stills_and_Nash-06-Wooden_Ships.mp3
19:57 < tenthirteen> >> U2-The_Joshua_Tree-04-Bullet_the_Blue_Sky.ogg
20:20 < tenthirteen> I'm officially going to rip all of my CDs
20:20 < tenthirteen> thousands
20:39 < tenthirteen> Chicane-Behind_the_Sun-04-Saltwater__Original_Mix.ogg
20:39 < tenthirteen> [playing] #192/389   2:46/10:03 (28%)
21:00 < tenthirteen> >> Nine_Inch_Nails-Further_Down_the_Spiral-05-Hurt__Quiet.ogg
21:05 < tenthirteen> >> Christopher_Cross--Ride_Like_the_Wind.mp3
21:10 < tenthirteen> >> Cream_Ibiza-CD2-02-DJ_Tiesto-Suburban_Train__Original_Mix.ogg
21:17 < tenthirteen> >> Dope_On_Plastic_3-07-Purple_Penguin-Mountain.ogg
21:26 < tenthirteen> >> Thievery_Corporation-The_Mirror_Conspiracy-09-Shadows_of_Ourselves.mp3
21:36 < tenthirteen> >> Thievery_Corporation-The_Cosmic_Game-08-Pela_Janela__feat_Gigi_Rezende.mp3
21:41 < tenthirteen> >> Thievery_Corporation-Abductions_and_Reconstructions-12-Avatars_of_Dub-Sexelevatormuzik.mp3
22:13 < tenthirteen> >> Thievery_Corporation-The_Cosmic_Game-02-Warning_Shots__feat_Sleepy_Wonder_and_Gunjan.mp3
22:19 < tenthirteen> >> Air-10000Hz_Legend-01-Electronic_Performers.ogg
--- Log closed Wed Nov 21 07:09:20 2007
--- Log opened Wed Nov 21 07:17:32 2007
07:17 -!- envirocbr [n=rbparten@c-76-110-6-57.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #free-advice
07:17 -!- Irssi: #free-advice: Total of 5 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 4 normal]
07:17 -!- Irssi: Join to #free-advice was synced in 25 secs
07:27 < tenthirteen> >> Chris_Isaak-Heart_Shaped_World-05-Wicked_Game.mp3
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18:05 < tenthirteen> sup
18:56 < tenthirteen> >> Above_the_Law--Freedom_of_Speech.ogg
19:00 < tenthirteen> >> Alterno_Daze_90s_Natural_Selection-10-Material_Issue-Valerie_Loves_Me.mp3
19:05 -!- FrankieShoelaces [n=FrankieS@pool-71-245-245-163.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
19:14 -!- tenthirteen [n=ten13@unaffiliated/tenthirteen] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
19:19 -!- tenthirteen [n=ten13@unaffiliated/tenthirteen] has joined #free-advice
19:20 < tenthirteen> envirocbr, you here?
19:28 < tenthirteen> someone tell me what my quit msg was
19:37 -!- tenthirteen [n=ten13@unaffiliated/tenthirteen] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:39 -!- tenthirteen [n=ten13@unaffiliated/tenthirteen] has joined #free-advice
19:40 < tenthirteen> lame
19:52 < tenthirteen> >> Smashing_Pumpkins-Mashed_Potatoes-CD1-03-There_It_Goes__Demo_88.mp3
20:16 < tenthirteen> >> Born_on_the_Blues-04-BB_King-The_Thrill_is_Gone.ogg
20:25 < tenthirteen> >> Josh_Wink-Profound_Sounds_Vol_1-01-Johannes_Heil_and_Heiko_Laux-D2.ogg
20:34 < tenthirteen> >> Radiohead-OK_Computer-06-Karma_Police.ogg
20:38 -!- FrankieShoelaces [n=FrankieS@pool-71-245-245-163.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #free-advice
20:38 < tenthirteen> wb
20:38 < FrankieShoelaces> ty
21:31 < tenthirteen> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7103566.stm
21:33 < tenthirteen> http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23422087-details/Millions+race+to+change+bank+accounts+as+families+panic+after+benefits+blunder/article.do
22:11 < envirocbr> tenthirteen: Lost Terminal was your message
22:13 < tenthirteen> kthx
22:28 < envirocbr> what was the biggie on it?
22:34 < tenthirteen> irssi was crashing
22:36 < tenthirteen> what are your holiday plans envirocbr 
22:42 < envirocbr> nothing
22:42 < envirocbr> Get more work done
22:42 < envirocbr> Sob over the fact that I may be losing a big account
22:42 < envirocbr> $600/mth
22:42 < tenthirteen> what kind of work
22:42 < tenthirteen> the cleaning work?
22:42 < envirocbr> Primarily because I think they are looking for someone cheaper
22:42 < envirocbr> Yes
22:42 < envirocbr> and I think my employees are doing shit work as well
22:42 < envirocbr> I charge them $150.00 per week
22:42 < tenthirteen> how are you going to do that on the holiday
22:42 < envirocbr> which is highly over priced
22:43 < envirocbr> I am going to fax them over another proposal and I am going to lower their cost
22:43 < tenthirteen> is it residential
22:43 < envirocbr> Commercial
22:43 < tenthirteen> ok 
22:43 < tenthirteen> 150 for how much work
22:43 < envirocbr> I think I will drop them to $90.00
22:43 < envirocbr> They are there MAYBE 1 - 1.25 hours
22:44 < envirocbr> I would rather lose $60.00 than to lose $150.00 per week
22:44 < envirocbr> even if I lost it, than that is okay with me
22:44 < envirocbr> It wil only allow me to reschedule some people around
22:44 < envirocbr> and give them more of our steady accounts
22:45 < tenthirteen> yeh i've actually done some of that myself
22:45 < tenthirteen> or have been affiliated with ppl doing it at least
22:45 < tenthirteen> and helped when needed
22:45 < envirocbr> so we can go and take on new accounts...because Coralie (our 'team leader') is a fucking moron and can't seem to handle extremely dirty move in and move outs
22:45 < envirocbr> Cleaning?
22:45 < envirocbr> My thing is....I love commercial accounts
22:46 < envirocbr> but HOW do I advertise to ehm
22:46 < envirocbr> them
22:46 < envirocbr> FrankieShoelaces: Would you know how?
22:46 < envirocbr> I am not the kind of person to walk door to door bothering people who are allready busy as hell and annoyed
22:46 < envirocbr> So I am not sure what to do
22:47 < envirocbr> I thought about paying my mom to do some Phone Soliciting from a script
22:47 < envirocbr> Think that will work?
23:09 < envirocbr> You know your trailor trash when...
23:09 < envirocbr> You've been married three times and still have the same in-laws. 
23:10 < envirocbr> http://www.yourjokes.net/White%20Jokes--White%20One%20Liners.html
23:18 < tenthirteen> sorry more phone calls
23:18 < tenthirteen> Coralie eh
23:18 < tenthirteen> sounds like a FL name
23:19 < tenthirteen> trouble with the advertising thing is always cost effectiveness
23:19 < tenthirteen> you can go direct mail but that's expensive
23:20 < tenthirteen> no one likes junk faxes but you could try it
23:20 < tenthirteen> have you done flyers in strategic locations?
23:21 < tenthirteen> like a copy place or bar frequented by commercial types
23:55 < FrankieShoelaces> you could try joining some local business organizations
23:55 < FrankieShoelaces> chamber of commerce, rotary
--- Day changed Thu Nov 22 2007
09:54 < envirocbr> We were thinking the Chamber of Commerce but every time I tried to fax their stupid ass the fax never got to them
09:54 < envirocbr> I want to join the Palm Bech County Chamber...they always have events going on...two per week!
09:54 < envirocbr> the dues are $350/yr
09:54 < envirocbr> I also want to join the BBB
09:54 < envirocbr> but they want $450/yr!
09:54 < envirocbr> That is a crock of shit
10:06 < FrankieShoelaces> BBB doesn't do much for you
10:06 < FrankieShoelaces> except give you something to put on your business card
10:06 < FrankieShoelaces> most people don't look for BBB these days
10:20 < envirocbr> I thought so
10:20 < envirocbr> They lowered their standards too
10:20 < envirocbr> used to be 1 full yera in BUisness
10:20 < envirocbr> now it is
10:20 < envirocbr> just 6 months
10:20 < envirocbr> LMAO
10:20 < envirocbr> that is pathetic
10:20 < envirocbr> any business can survive 6 months
10:21 < envirocbr> it is the first year is where you see most business like mine fail
10:21 < envirocbr> mostly cause they lack capital
10:21 < envirocbr> ol
10:21 < envirocbr> Thankfully I have family so whenever I needed a boost of cash I always had it
10:21 < envirocbr> so they have outstanding loans
10:22 < envirocbr> FrankieShoelaces: Fo you think that $9.90 per $100 of payroll is expensive?
10:22 < envirocbr> for workers compensation?
10:23 < FrankieShoelaces> it sounds expensive
10:24 < envirocbr> That is what I thoght
10:24 < envirocbr> however
10:24 < FrankieShoelaces> well, i take that back
10:24 < envirocbr> $6.60 per $100 if I DON'T do windows
10:24 < envirocbr> which includes standard sliding glass
10:24 < envirocbr> doors
10:24 < FrankieShoelaces> in NY, people doing work in the field can be 8-15 per 100
10:24 < envirocbr> I just don't get it
10:24 < FrankieShoelaces> office people pay about 4
10:24 < envirocbr> what do you mean?
10:24 < envirocbr> like people who sit at desks all day long?
10:25 < envirocbr> $4.00 per $100
10:25 < FrankieShoelaces> the rates for workers comp are based on your likelihood of getting hurt at work
10:25 < FrankieShoelaces> correc
10:25 < FrankieShoelaces> correct
10:25 < envirocbr> I think it is all one big scam for the insurance companies to rape me
10:25 < envirocbr> I have been thinking of it
10:25 < FrankieShoelaces> if you're working around windows or plate glass doors, you're much more likely to get hurt
10:25 < envirocbr> and I have decided I really want to get workers comp
10:25 < FrankieShoelaces> of course it's a scam
10:25 < FrankieShoelaces> my car insurance is a scam
10:25 < FrankieShoelaces> but i have to pay it if i want to drive
10:25 < envirocbr> true
10:26 < envirocbr> I have the girls as 1099 but the only benefit that offers is I don't do taxes
10:26 < envirocbr> I am still liable for them
10:26 < envirocbr> I just want to be more legit
10:27 < envirocbr> but at what cost
10:27 < envirocbr> I would have to raise my price
10:27 < envirocbr> so 
10:27 < envirocbr> at $9.90 per $100
10:28 < envirocbr> I need I would have to raise my price from $45.00/hr
10:28 < envirocbr> to about $52.00
10:28 < envirocbr> per hour
10:28 < envirocbr> to sustain the same profits
10:28 < FrankieShoelaces> most people won't balk at that increas
10:28 < FrankieShoelaces> increase
10:29 < envirocbr> Some of my clients would
10:29 < envirocbr> You think that is still reasonable for two people for house cleaning
10:29 < envirocbr> I only have a 1 hour 15 minute minimum charge
10:29 < envirocbr> and I charge in 15 minute increments
10:29 < envirocbr> rounded up of course
10:32 < FrankieShoelaces> so you're talking about an increase of $10
10:32 < FrankieShoelaces> per hour
10:39 < envirocbr> will we just went up fron $40 to $45
10:39 < envirocbr> about 2 weeks ago
10:39 < envirocbr> we have talked about going to $50 for a long time now
10:39 < envirocbr> so maybe it is time
10:39 < envirocbr> But in order for me to do that I would want to have workers comp because I like being fair to my clients
10:41 < envirocbr> FrankieShoelaces: I need your help and I would value your opinion on this
10:41 < envirocbr> I am writing up the new proposal for my commercial client to save this account
10:41 < envirocbr> and I would like your help in wording it
10:42 < envirocbr> www.ahsfl.net/helpme
10:42 < envirocbr> it will load in PDF
10:42 < envirocbr> I am not finished and would like your opinion
10:44 < envirocbr> tell me when YOu have one 
10:44 < envirocbr> tenthirteen: you too
10:45 < envirocbr> nick seems so sad these days
10:45 < FrankieShoelaces> overhaul is one word
10:45 < envirocbr> 19:14 < nick32> I am going to bed, i can hope i do not arise in the morning but experience tells me this will no doubt happen.
10:46 < envirocbr> FrankieShoelaces: Thank you
10:46 < envirocbr> so much for spell and grammar check
10:46 < envirocbr> :P
10:46 < FrankieShoelaces> 'our pricing structure' should probably be 'its pricing structure'
10:47 < FrankieShoelaces> or say "We at Absolute Home Solution LLC have overhauled our pricing structure
10:47 < FrankieShoelaces> something like that
10:47 < envirocbr> Changed
10:48 < envirocbr> shoudl I change all the "our" to "it's"?
10:48 < FrankieShoelaces> not it's
10:48 < envirocbr> okay
10:48 < envirocbr> changed
10:49 < envirocbr> how should I end it though
10:49 < envirocbr> I am not sure how to get them into it
10:49 < envirocbr> I want them to sign a contract
10:50 < FrankieShoelaces> why would they want to sign a contract?
10:53 < FrankieShoelaces> don't use w/o
10:53 < FrankieShoelaces> spell out "without"
10:54 < FrankieShoelaces> why are you addressing the letter to Myron and everyone else at NAV-TV
10:54 < FrankieShoelaces> address the letter to the decision maker
10:54 < FrankieShoelaces> you're cutting the price almost in half for them
10:55 < FrankieShoelaces> if i were them, i'd think you've been ripping me off all this time
10:55 < envirocbr> So how should I do this
10:57 < FrankieShoelaces> i wouldn't do it in a letter
10:57 < FrankieShoelaces> i'd visit this Myron guy face to face
10:58 < envirocbr> I see
10:59 < envirocbr> We used to do it by square footage
10:59 < envirocbr> for offices
10:59 < envirocbr> but we are going per hour per crew
10:59 < envirocbr> Their office is 
10:59 < envirocbr> http://www.co.palm-beach.fl.us/papa/aspx/web/detail_info.aspx?p_entity=06434717290123013&geonav=Y&styp=general&owner=&city=-1&zip=&method=address&cidx=-1&sdiv=&sdivnam=&stno=100&pdir=NW&st=11th&strnm=&sufx=ST&ptdir=&cty=&rng=&twp=&sct=&blk=&lot=&book=&page=&tangid=&condo=&condoname=&use=&usnam=&sloc=&prd=&pedir=NW&podir=&famt=&tamt=&fsqft=&tsqft=&srt1=&srt2=&srt3=&stpage=0&adlfilter=
11:00 < envirocbr> So you think I should go and meet them
11:00 < envirocbr> and explain that instead of square footage we are going on a different pricing scheme
11:00 < envirocbr> of per hour and crew
11:01 < envirocbr> I just don't want to lose the account
11:01 < envirocbr> I really don't
11:01 < FrankieShoelaces> be prepared for some questions from him
11:01 < envirocbr> I also can't help but know that my girls are doing shit work
11:01 < envirocbr> What questions would you have?
11:02 < FrankieShoelaces> i already told you the first one
11:02 < FrankieShoelaces> going from 150/hr to 80/hr makes it seem like you've been ripping me off
11:02 < FrankieShoelaces> why should i stay with you when your the people you send to me do shit work?
11:02 < FrankieShoelaces> why am i paying for supplies?
11:04 < envirocbr> Well I know for one that we have never discussed supplies 
11:04 < envirocbr> I offered once but the offer was ignored
11:05 < envirocbr> The whole employee thing
11:05 < envirocbr> I going to be hard for me
11:05 < envirocbr> I guess we can always show up and do the work
11:06 < envirocbr> however we have other accounts
11:06 < envirocbr> at the same time
11:07 < envirocbr> I dunno this is going to be tough
11:08 < envirocbr> I am going to come prepared with teh evidence as to why I charged them what I did
11:08 < FrankieShoelaces> i know it's tough
11:08 < envirocbr> so I will get the square footage from the PAPA and show them how I estimated it
11:08 < envirocbr> then show them how I am doing it now
11:09 < envirocbr> I guess I just gotta stay cool and professional
11:09 < FrankieShoelaces> it's all business
11:10 < envirocbr> These are the people I do business for
11:10 < envirocbr> http://www.navtv.com/
11:10 < envirocbr> FrankieShoelaces: I know
11:11 < envirocbr> if I lose it then I will move on without it
11:11 < envirocbr> just a little loss
11:11 < envirocbr> considering this week alone I made $1,100
11:11 < envirocbr> with Bethany and I
11:11 < envirocbr> probably another $400 from the girls
11:12 < envirocbr> we had our first $10,000 month
11:12 < envirocbr> last month
11:12 < FrankieShoelaces> nice
11:12 < envirocbr> but we spent $6,000
11:12 < envirocbr> !!!
11:12 < FrankieShoelaces> then just keep building
11:12 < FrankieShoelaces> you can't focus on the sales
11:12 < FrankieShoelaces> you have to focus on the bottom line
11:12 < envirocbr> It is hard to...these girls I got working for us are pissing me off, they can't seem to handle big jobs on time
11:12 < FrankieShoelaces> 10,000 - 6,000 = $4000
11:12 < envirocbr> yeah
11:12 < FrankieShoelaces> the 4k is the number that matters
11:13 < envirocbr> True...I just like to hold on to more 
11:13 < FrankieShoelaces> don't get caught up in that
11:13 < FrankieShoelaces> it's a losing proposition
11:13 < envirocbr> FrankieShoelaces: But they are what is going to break us though right?
11:13 < envirocbr> I have been on the edge with wanting to fire them both
11:13 < envirocbr> and getting a whole new crew
11:14 < envirocbr> but that itself poses new problems
11:14 < FrankieShoelaces> if you get rid of them now, who is going to do their work?
11:14 < envirocbr> Coralie we have been friends with and that is something we should have never done
11:14 < envirocbr> FrankieShoelaces: no one
11:14 < FrankieShoelaces> i don't know if they're going to break you
11:14 < FrankieShoelaces> that's for you to decide
11:15 < envirocbr> FrankieShoelaces: But I think if I were to hire a full time crew and make sure they are working well and I can trust them...I think I will just let these other two part time girls go
11:15 < envirocbr> They are only good from about 8:30 - 2:00
11:15 < envirocbr> not much 
11:15 < envirocbr> so they may get three jobs in a day
11:15 < envirocbr> MAYBE
11:16 < envirocbr> I allready lost 2 Residential accounts because of them
11:16 < envirocbr> they weren't big ones
11:16 < envirocbr> but still
11:16 < envirocbr> I am losing business because they are slow as hell
11:19 < FrankieShoelaces> are they more thorough than the should be?
11:19 < envirocbr> no
11:19 < envirocbr> Just lazy slow ass bithces
11:20 < envirocbr> I lost a $60/week account because of them as well
11:20 < envirocbr> One girl doesn't sweep the bathroom
11:20 < envirocbr> the other morons mops OVER it 
11:20 < envirocbr> I am like
11:20 < envirocbr> WTF
11:21 < envirocbr> You did not see all that hair on the fucking floor
11:21 < envirocbr> which means they were not using the checklist
11:21 < envirocbr> either of them
11:23 < envirocbr> Which pisses me off
11:23 < envirocbr> cause I know the girls just go into their cars and check them off AFTER the job
11:23 < envirocbr> I would never have thought a grown ass women in their 30's can't follow directions
11:24 < envirocbr> Pure lack of self discipline
11:29 < FrankieShoelaces> that's because no one is supervising them
11:29 < envirocbr> Coralie is supposed to be the Supervisor...lol
14:48 < nick32> oi
14:59 < nick32> kbai~
14:59  * nick32 gone
15:28 < tenthirteen> what'd I miss
15:30 < tenthirteen> the workers comp in Ohio was insane, it all was, it made life hell
15:30 < tenthirteen> I know it was higher than 9.90
15:39 < tenthirteen> I want to say for the computer scene it was low, like $4/100, but for construction it was $20/100 or worse all the time
15:40 < tenthirteen> in OH i've seen it as bad as 30-40/100
15:41 < tenthirteen> and that wasn't for minesweeping or anything that bad either
15:54 < tenthirteen> you can't pull back the rates 45%
15:55 < tenthirteen> they will all cancel thinking as FrankieShoelaces said they were getting ripped off, or think the quality is going to degrade further
15:55 < tenthirteen> better to pull back no more than 10% or come up with a holiday promotion
15:55 < tenthirteen> save the money there, improve the value anyway
15:55 < tenthirteen> then they may be happier and continue
15:56 < tenthirteen> lower the rate some for new customers but more for established customers
15:56 < tenthirteen> let them all know what a great deal it is as well
15:56 < tenthirteen> and hype up how things are new & improved
15:57 < tenthirteen> that there's newfangled efficiency and technology in your operation and that's led to lower end cost to them
15:57 < tenthirteen> make up something
15:58 < tenthirteen> if they smell desperation they'll either kill you off now or think they can further press you lower or get you to do more
15:58 < tenthirteen> until you break
15:58 < tenthirteen> and that's not good, you have to present a strong image for them to feel falsely confident
16:02 < tenthirteen> http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html
16:02 < tenthirteen> now we see why things like myspace are free
16:03 < tenthirteen> News Corp + Murdoch are just as bad as microsoft, myspace brings them together to take over the world and the server market
16:03 < tenthirteen> in the FUD dept that will be big news
22:08 < tenthirteen>  $ pmap `pgrep pidgin` | tail -n1
22:08 < tenthirteen>  total           306912K
22:08 < tenthirteen> absurd
23:21 < FrankieShoelaces> about 100 on line already at Circuit City here
23:22 < FrankieShoelaces> about 200 at Best Buy
23:26 < tenthirteen> excellent
23:26 < tenthirteen> what chinese leaden goods are they eagerly anticipating
--- Day changed Fri Nov 23 2007
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02:37 -!- nick32 [i=_STONED-@bb-87-81-118-106.ukonline.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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16:45 < tenthirteen> I didn't see anything worthy of triggering a Black Friday trip in any of the ads or flyers.
16:58 < tenthirteen> and the crowds are already dying down
16:59 < tenthirteen> how many sub-$25 DVD players or junk TVs do we need
17:23 < tenthirteen> newegg has some deals but they're only marginal
17:24 < tenthirteen> I guess if you want a 17" wide LCD and will deal with a rebate $99.99 isn't too bad
17:24 < tenthirteen> plus $12.69
18:30 < tenthirteen> There are a lot of similar deals to be had but you have to pick a price point and what $5 level is the right one?
18:48 < tenthirteen> Is it bad that the liquor store calls me when my shipment arrives?
22:32 < envirocbr> yes
22:33 < envirocbr> need some advice on a MB
23:03 < tenthirteen> morning boner?
23:03 < tenthirteen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnal_penile_tumescence
23:07 < nick32> lo
23:13 < tenthirteen> sup
23:14 < tenthirteen> what are you lookin around at
23:14 < tenthirteen> pr0n
23:14 < tenthirteen> druqz and alcohol
23:15 < tenthirteen> nocturnal penile tumescence
23:41 < nick32> none
23:41 < nick32> i was drinking some juice
23:41 < nick32> i went to go on irc but i had to get something to eat
23:45 < nick32> nearly 5am
23:45 < nick32> sleep time
23:45 < nick32> bai~
--- Day changed Sat Nov 24 2007
01:16  * FrankieShoelaces looks around
02:22  * tenthirteen creeps out from the bushes
02:28 < FrankieShoelaces> hello
02:28 < FrankieShoelaces> so you did the black friday thing?
03:02 < tenthirteen> no I didn't
03:02 < tenthirteen> I observed from the bushes, gathered intel from other sources
03:21 < tenthirteen> Do you want the big gun or the good pkg
07:05 -!- tenthirteen [n=ten13@unaffiliated/tenthirteen] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.6/2007110618]"]
13:01 < nick32> bitch ima kill you
14:14 < FrankieShoelaces> ` hello to you too
--- Log closed Sat Nov 24 14:39:46 2007
--- Log opened Sat Nov 24 15:15:12 2007
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15:15 -!- Irssi: #free-advice: Total of 4 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 3 normal]
15:15 -!- Irssi: Join to #free-advice was synced in 1 secs
15:15 < envirocbr> hey guys
15:15 < envirocbr> http://pastebin.ca/796131
15:15 < envirocbr> look at that and tell me what you see
15:15 < envirocbr> Cause ay my boot menu I have two more options now
15:15 < envirocbr> instead of Mandriva 2008 and Safe I have have two other options that just appeared there from out of nowhere
16:19 < envirocbr> Kernel update
16:59 < envirocbr> Going offline to Get my Quad COre running!!!!
--- Log closed Sat Nov 24 16:59:52 2007