(6:03:28 PM) Nottestuser: So which is it going to be? Shut it all down or pick some goals and do it?
(6:03:29 PM) democritus: you are in agreement with what? 4300/night prostitutes?
(6:03:48 PM) Nottestuser: $4300 is too much. It'd be cheaper to get a wife.
(6:03:49 PM) democritus: matt not sure honestly-
(6:03:57 PM) democritus: all depends on what we can come up wiht
(6:04:08 PM) Nottestuser: Now if you want to talk abou the $100-200 price point...
(6:04:11 PM) democritus: :D
(6:04:34 PM) Nottestuser: k, enough evil guy talk for the day.
(6:04:37 PM) democritus: ok- fuck the system and all that- it just really occurred to me how highly inefficient i am being
(6:05:09 PM) democritus: hehe
(6:05:16 PM) democritus: i am on the intertubes- i am TOUGH
(6:05:44 PM) Nottestuser: Yup. I've recently gotten on an efficiency kick myself.
(6:05:49 PM) democritus: the internet would be cooler if it really were like those bank teller tubes
(6:06:15 PM) Nottestuser: Indeed.
(6:06:36 PM) democritus: but then somebody in demoines would try to have sex with their tubes and it would hose up the works
(6:06:40 PM) democritus: inevitably
(6:06:46 PM) Nottestuser: There'd be  awhole econnomy around building things that fit in a 3" diameter pipe.
(6:06:54 PM) democritus: heh
(6:07:08 PM) democritus: i am up for serious discourse- i just got home though- gimme a few to pet the cat- etc
(6:07:11 PM) Neverender left the room.
(6:07:35 PM) Nottestuser: Like there's a whole manufaturing industry around what fits ina standa shipping container.
(6:07:39 PM) Neverender [n.bernardi@pacificaglobal.com/Gajim] entered the room.
(6:12:09 PM) Nottestuser: So while the FNF and FSP stuff is all well and good, I don't see any material goals from that work being met for a long time.
(6:13:06 PM) Nottestuser: I think it's unrealistic to bank on the kind of reaction the FNF got back when it was on Digg. Even if it did, we all saw that lots of attention is not always good.
(6:13:42 PM) Nottestuser: There's no greater pile of idiots than the internet and wading through the Nanos to find the Neverenders is not fun.
(6:13:51 PM) democritus: ^
(6:13:53 PM) democritus: ya
(6:14:04 PM) Nottestuser: So I say screw 'em all.
(6:14:10 PM) democritus: k
(6:14:16 PM) democritus: i get the hot females
(6:14:28 PM) democritus: you can screw the others
(6:14:29 PM) democritus: :D
(6:14:47 PM) Nottestuser: Do the society stuff in the background, don't publisize it, just sit back and chat and write and make sure the site is indexed and readable by outsiders if they come.
(6:15:05 PM) Nottestuser: Then, find something else to attarct idiots. And make money. And hookers.
(6:15:59 PM) democritus: right- i have some personal things i need to do on the internets
(6:16:15 PM) democritus: my own failure it aint done, no one elses
(6:16:21 PM) democritus: everything else is Neverender's fault though
(6:16:23 PM) democritus: squarely
(6:16:26 PM) Nottestuser: Which is why I was interested in doing the game. In adition to that I'm curious about how the whole web buisness model works and I'd like to experiment with creating something that uses it. I'd be totally happy if it just covered it's own costs and maybe bought me some ammo now and again.
(6:16:43 PM) Nottestuser: LOL! :)
(6:16:49 PM) democritus: yes but you are not the only one here-
(6:16:59 PM) democritus: each person has different motivations
(6:17:06 PM) democritus: for some its not a matter of spare ammo
(6:17:13 PM) democritus: not yelling or being a dick
(6:17:23 PM) Nottestuser: I'm only saying what I want at the moment. We've gotta all start with that and see what turns up.
(6:17:31 PM) democritus: there are alot of people who just cannot cope with this system and what we are supposed to live for
(6:17:49 PM) Neverender: hmm?
(6:17:56 PM) democritus: its your fault
(6:17:58 PM) Neverender: oh hi
(6:18:03 PM) Neverender: kk
(6:19:35 PM) democritus: fair enough matt- i think one of the first things people would like to do is come off the grid so to speak-- 
(6:19:50 PM) democritus: not talking about dropping out- i am talking about have a close knit group of people that make money
(6:20:31 PM) democritus: self-efficiency must be first goal- maybe we start with just the handful of people here- and we drop the social action piece most of us feel strongly for now- to concentrate on one set of goals at  a time
(6:20:33 PM) democritus: not sure
(6:21:02 PM) Nottestuser: See, I agree however I think step 1 to being self-sufficient is being able to afford it.
(6:22:28 PM) Nottestuser: Hence I want a demonstratable way to generate revenue. Barring that a demonstratable way to put food in my mouth that, I hope, doesn't involve  a hoe.
(6:22:38 PM) democritus: right
(6:22:42 PM) Neverender: busy
(6:22:44 PM) Neverender: here in a few
(6:23:27 PM) Nottestuser: That's why I want to coast on the societal action stuff, keep dreaming and discussing, but don't expect anything to actually happen on it until it's financially possible.
(6:24:29 PM) democritus: kk
(6:24:38 PM) democritus: not a bad point
(6:25:10 PM) Nottestuser: If we can come up with something that pays it's own costs (like ads from a game paying for the servers the game runs on) then that demonstrates that we can work as a team to get something done that doesn't screw us over. To me that's a very important step.
(6:25:22 PM) democritus: although for some things our members can push a message
(6:25:26 PM) democritus: maybe not exactly what we are doing
(6:25:37 PM) democritus: but to put  A REAL differing point of view out there
(6:25:54 PM) democritus: i have that need internally- so i guess i can take that to my own personal space for now- 
(6:26:50 PM) democritus: i thought the game was good, the idea was marketable- of course the real key is not one of us was/is fluent with the language involved
(6:26:54 PM) democritus: and no graphic artist!
(6:27:06 PM) democritus: that is a very big hurdle- and what deflated me most
(6:27:36 PM) democritus: you know who would be awesome on the project matt?
(6:27:39 PM) democritus: Daemon
(6:28:28 PM) aegis: I don't think any of us have believed that anything will realistically come from our ideology side of things for awhile, most of that push is about making recruiting active again because we are very short on people right now which effects our business endeavours.
(6:28:36 PM) Nottestuser: See, I never did any actual coding on the game itself because of the lack of art.
(6:28:57 PM) democritus: actually- aegis think a little different 
(6:29:04 PM) democritus: screw recruiting
(6:29:08 PM) democritus: we got what we got- 
(6:29:15 PM) Nottestuser: I know I can code the engine to make it work and come up with rules for it. I know I can't do the art. I can probably learn enough HTML to make it feel ok.
(6:29:17 PM) democritus: recruit only to fill need
(6:29:29 PM) democritus: to put people in place that can help achieve our objective
(6:29:53 PM) Nottestuser: I also think new people need to have something to attarct them.
(6:30:05 PM) democritus: aegis: i am not being authoritarian here- feel free to disagree
(6:30:06 PM) democritus: :D
(6:30:09 PM) Nottestuser: And besides, so what no one knows crap about art. Someone learn.
(6:30:25 PM) democritus: there you go
(6:30:36 PM) democritus: not sure that applies to art- but damn near anything else
(6:30:49 PM) Nottestuser: Art really isn't hard. At least basic layout design and graphics manipulation.
(6:31:04 PM) democritus: for you
(6:31:12 PM) democritus: :D
(6:31:24 PM) democritus: i am anti-artistic when it comes to graphics
(6:31:27 PM) democritus: :D
(6:31:42 PM) Nottestuser: Oh, no, it's hard for me. It's not natural. But if you look at artists sites they're just formulating and applying rules just like any other dicipline.
(6:32:03 PM) democritus: gotcha- but we would need someone with at least a desire and a little aptitude
(6:32:10 PM) Nottestuser: We don't need a Picaso to start a revolution. Just someone to make some pictures that are non-offensive.
(6:32:28 PM) democritus: i have neither- and yes i get your point- a formula is a formula - with art there is still a "personal touch" thing involved
(6:32:37 PM) Nottestuser: I wouldn't be totaly oposed but I think I'd be better at other things.
(6:32:46 PM) democritus: aegis: ?
(6:32:56 PM) democritus: got anything to bring to the table there?
(6:33:38 PM) democritus: aegis: we are just talking right now--- the basic idea is to stop trying to be 3 things- we know we are pretty solid with each other- and where each other stands-
(6:33:59 PM) democritus: it is a pretty decent base to put money into- that money as fucked as it is, is the key
(6:34:06 PM) Nottestuser: Ok, so we're starting to presume that we're going to go back to the game idea. Are we really wanting to go down that path now or do we have more to discuss.
(6:34:08 PM) democritus: as then what we say BECOMES A REAL OPTION
(6:34:26 PM) democritus: well so far its just me and you
(6:34:31 PM) democritus: maybe we should go make dinner
(6:34:31 PM) democritus: :D
(6:34:56 PM) democritus: however, i know tux would be behind this overall push to focus on making money
(6:35:18 PM) aegis: If we have the available skills to complete the game, we might as well do it. But it wasn't going anywhere for quite awhile, like a lot of our work.
(6:35:28 PM) democritus: cause i am just getting further and further into the hooks of the "man" by having my living provided the way it is now
(6:35:37 PM) democritus: aegis: yeah-
(6:35:47 PM) democritus: personally- i am telling you- I am done with that- 
(6:35:50 PM) aegis: I think we're fully capable of doing both business and ideology work, if people get their mindset in the right place.
(6:36:00 PM) democritus: i accomplish or i pack it up and go the fuck home
(6:36:05 PM) democritus: and stfu
(6:36:08 PM) democritus: fail
(6:36:09 PM) Nottestuser: As fucked as it is, yes, we need money. We're in the societal ghetto now; the middle class held back away from any levers of society. We need to get out of the ghetto. Then we can think about pulling stuff.
(6:36:31 PM) democritus: aegis: i think it has to be all money to start
(6:36:38 PM) democritus: with personal writings, etc- 
(6:36:44 PM) democritus: that should be going on now
(6:36:45 PM) democritus: and isnt
(6:36:56 PM) democritus: we could have been going 4 hours a day on it- why havent we ?
(6:37:16 PM) aegis: Right, but we're going to have a shortage on people for anything we want to do.
(6:37:19 PM) democritus: because no one is sure if it will stick, we get motivated do a lot of work- we see hardly any dent in the overall load of work needed doing
(6:37:20 PM) democritus: etc
(6:37:28 PM) democritus: not for making money aegis
(6:37:41 PM) democritus: shortage for changing the world and building that organization to its fullest hell yeah
(6:37:45 PM) Nottestuser: Because no one else is :) I know I can't finish it myself so I don't want to start if no one else is going to help because then I'll have another half finished thing.
(6:37:49 PM) democritus: and i would never say "close" membershipo
(6:37:52 PM) democritus: -o
(6:38:19 PM) democritus: matt EXACTLY
(6:38:52 PM) aegis: I'm sure everyone is thinking the same thing.
(6:38:54 PM) democritus: i am saving this conversation btw- i will put it on a pastebin like place-- then put it into topic
(6:38:58 PM) democritus: aegis: they are
(6:38:58 PM) Neverender: mmm
(6:39:00 PM) democritus: everyone
(6:39:03 PM) Nottestuser: Well, I know exactly what to start on if we're going to do the game.
(6:39:09 PM) aegis: Which is why everything comes to a halt before it really gets going.
(6:39:10 PM) democritus: well that would help
(6:39:27 PM) democritus: :D
(6:39:44 PM) democritus: i can give 2.5hrs tonight guaranteed
(6:39:45 PM) Nottestuser: And Demo, you need to stop picking a new tool dejour so we all don't have to keep running around like crazy people tryuing to figure out what anyone said yesterday.
(6:39:46 PM) democritus: possibly more
(6:39:51 PM) democritus: ME?
(6:40:00 PM) democritus: you should see THEM?!!!!
(6:40:07 PM) democritus: they changed trackers 
(6:40:13 PM) democritus: oh yeah- we gotta discuss that to
(6:40:19 PM) Nottestuser: Yeah, you Mr Google docs, pastebin, kodo, wiki
(6:40:46 PM) democritus: actually i have settled --- pastebin/zoho
(6:41:10 PM) democritus: a lot of our members like trackers
(6:41:21 PM) democritus: so they built one- it has no torrents in it
(6:41:24 PM) democritus: and is broken all to hell
(6:41:32 PM) democritus: can we just say it is a bad idea at this time?
(6:41:54 PM) democritus: unless someone has figured out how to do a bittorrent/netsukuku package- and has a team of lawyers
(6:42:01 PM) Neverender: the tracker is a seperate thing
(6:42:11 PM) Neverender: non pacg/fsp or whatever
(6:42:14 PM) democritus: is that wise?
(6:42:24 PM) Neverender: is what wise?
(6:42:39 PM) democritus: what is the gain expected?
(6:42:49 PM) democritus: if you keep it personal you are going to get buttfucked
(6:42:52 PM) Neverender: a cool tracker?
(6:43:02 PM) democritus: no protection whatsoever from legal action
(6:43:19 PM) Neverender: if its pacg then pacg will get buttfucked
(6:43:27 PM) Nottestuser: Yeah. Not interested in the tracker. Leave taht to Pirate Bay and their fancy nordic laws.
(6:43:29 PM) aegis: Seeing as none of us live in Sweden, yeah.
(6:43:46 PM) Nottestuser: No liabilities on our servers.
(6:43:53 PM) Nottestuser: Next topic....
(6:43:57 PM) Nottestuser: :)
(6:44:17 PM) democritus: your personal liability can be the groups concern ya know
(6:44:18 PM) democritus: :P
(6:44:40 PM) democritus: the law is a funky thing my friend
(6:44:48 PM) democritus: you get your "portion" of pacg "seized"
(6:44:59 PM) democritus: wtf--- that would be something i would be concerned about
(6:45:28 PM) democritus: but i cant stop you of course :)
(6:45:47 PM) democritus: still see it as a waste and unneeded risk if we are not going full balls on for it
(6:45:54 PM) democritus: which would require a team of lawy..................
(6:45:54 PM) Neverender: anyway yeah Nottestuser, about the game, i'm kinda on the other side of it. i'm a little iffy with the engine/code stuff but html/making it look ok i can defnity do (other than graphics)
(6:46:37 PM) Neverender: demo "we" arent
(6:46:46 PM) democritus: so says you
(6:46:49 PM) democritus: me and randy were
(6:46:56 PM) democritus: as we had been talking about it
(6:47:00 PM) democritus: and me and him are partners
(6:47:18 PM) democritus: meaning- if he was going to do it- and nothing else was going to happen
(6:47:28 PM) democritus: i told him i was also in- and he said of course- 
(6:49:21 PM) Nottestuser: Never: well, that's a start. I see another big part of this being the buisness part. Until we can afford our own island we're going to need an interface to the rest of the world. We've got to pay taxes and fend off lawyers.
(6:55:37 PM) democritus: sooooo
(6:55:40 PM) democritus: its all jacks fault
(6:55:41 PM) democritus: figures
(6:55:43 PM) democritus: :D
(6:55:50 PM) democritus: nm - lets go on
(6:56:09 PM) democritus: the game is decent- i really feel that way- 
(6:56:48 PM) democritus: but as i just told never in pm- i 100% do not care the profit source, as long as it is attainable, and we can work in unison as a group on it.  I do feel this is very important - because that is true to the core philosophies we had talked about
(6:58:03 PM) democritus: with that - i need to at least make some rice or something
(6:58:09 PM) democritus: lurk mode for a rew
(6:58:12 PM) democritus: few
(6:58:35 PM) Nottestuser: Likewise here. I would just like the revenue source to come from computer related work, preferably web services.
(6:59:34 PM) Neverender: yeah
(7:05:46 PM) democritus: yeap
(7:10:44 PM) aegis: I agree. Only concern I have is that in the long run, we end up doing work we can enjoy.
(7:11:31 PM) aegis: So the focus is back on the game then, correct?
(7:14:17 PM) democritus: aegis: that should always be both a goal and a constant worry
(7:14:50 PM) democritus: where the hell is randy
(7:15:21 PM) Jack [j.laxson@pacificaglobal.com/Adium] entered the room.
(7:15:40 PM) democritus: you got some reading to do jack
(7:15:48 PM) Jack: ):<
(7:17:43 PM) Jack: http://sourceforge.net/projects/thousandparsec/
(7:17:46 PM) Jack: *cough*
(7:18:51 PM) democritus: cough cough
(7:18:54 PM) democritus: so there
(7:19:37 PM) democritus: jack we heard that you glued your gf to the toilet for 2yrs
(7:19:39 PM) democritus: we know about you
(7:19:44 PM) democritus: that was in kansas right?
(7:20:13 PM) Nottestuser: Interesting.
(7:20:29 PM) Nottestuser: thousand parsec, not the glued to the toilet
(7:20:49 PM) Jack: XD
(7:21:39 PM) Jack: What wasi supposed to get frm that steve?
(7:21:40 PM) Jack: :
(7:26:19 PM) Jack: #
(6:55:40 PM) democritus: its all jacks fault
(7:26:21 PM) Jack: IS NOT
(7:26:32 PM) Jack: *blames tux*
(7:28:45 PM) democritus: you all did not hear that story?
(7:28:49 PM) democritus: wow
(7:28:55 PM) Jack: i guss not
(7:29:00 PM) Jack: Asplain.
(7:29:05 PM) ***democritus nudges ThePredator
(7:29:13 PM) democritus: about done lurking
(7:29:17 PM) democritus: where were we?
(7:29:50 PM) Jack: Money i think
(7:31:28 PM) democritus: grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
(7:32:09 PM) Jack: *is uploading on new pusa album*
(7:32:11 PM) Jack: yay ratio
(7:32:35 PM) democritus: nono
(7:32:39 PM) democritus: :D
(7:32:47 PM) democritus: kidding-
(7:33:07 PM) Jack: Whats this hate on the tracker?
(7:33:07 PM) Jack: :P
(7:33:08 PM) democritus: but what did you think of where we were going with all that?
(7:33:25 PM) democritus: i hate anything that isnt going to be project that makes us money
(7:33:29 PM) Jack: :D
(7:33:57 PM) Jack: Honestly, we should try and get more web hosting related things
(7:34:05 PM) Jack: thats where a majority of our skill sets are
(7:34:18 PM) Jack: Unlike the game
(7:34:22 PM) Jack: which is perfectly fine
(7:35:27 PM) Nottestuser: This is one of the exciting things about the game. Using Comit is a server-level technology that enables us to make soemthing that will feel cooler than anyone else's thing.
(7:35:28 PM) democritus: so you are saying being a web host?
(7:35:35 PM) democritus: me and matt both did that
(7:35:50 PM) democritus: we will both tell you how hard it is to profit at it
(7:36:08 PM) democritus: matt now your talking
(7:36:16 PM) Jack: xD
(7:36:35 PM) Jack: I know seedboxes are not a tapped market.
(7:36:44 PM) democritus: lolz
(7:36:47 PM) democritus: touche
(7:36:49 PM) Jack: at all.
(7:37:07 PM) Jack: Might be a logistic nightmear but there is a market
(7:37:10 PM) democritus: but still- of profit centers- it is not the most profitable
(7:37:47 PM) democritus: and - how can we become unique in the market?
(7:37:55 PM) democritus: it is a pretty standard kind of thing
(7:38:08 PM) democritus: if you are trying to break into a saturated market- you need a new take on old things, etc etc
(7:38:11 PM) democritus: marketing 101
(7:38:19 PM) democritus: ewww
(7:38:19 PM) Jack: SEEDBOXEN :P
(7:38:30 PM) Jack: Not flat web hosting
(7:38:32 PM) Nottestuser: I think the realy money comes from anything that has a face that normal people can see. Being a web host is not something that normal people will understand well so they won't part with their loot.
(7:38:57 PM) democritus: oh you dont mean the LITERAL seed box
(7:39:01 PM) democritus: i thought you were being funny
(7:39:13 PM) Neverender: Nottestuser: This is one of the exciting things about the game. Using Comit is a server-level technology that enables us to make soemthing that will feel cooler than anyone else's thing.
(7:39:13 PM) Jack: not funny
(7:39:15 PM) Jack: Srss.
(7:39:15 PM) Neverender: wut
(7:39:19 PM) Jack: Theres a market
(7:39:34 PM) Jack: *goes to mirror a what.cd fourm thread*
(7:39:59 PM) Jack: amistill connected?
(7:40:02 PM) democritus: you say bittorrent- i say "ewwww" from a legal perspective
(7:40:05 PM) democritus: as a profit center
(7:40:18 PM) democritus: yeah
(7:40:42 PM) democritus: so it will take some convincing :D  but a good case is a good case
(7:40:42 PM) Jack: "I just picked up one with Vectoral.  Just waiting for it to be setup.

I've had experiences with a few different companies before.

BestofData - Decent speeds and "unmetered".  I could easily crack 40-50 mbps if there were the seeders to support it.  Of course, my service got cancelled because of illegal usage.
LeaseWeb - Good speeds, but I was always running into bandwidth limits and there was no way I was forking over the dough for an unmetered server.  Obviously that would vary from person to person, though.  I was relatively satisfied, but not thrilled.
Can't Remember their name at the moment - Whichever company it is that has small HDD's (20GB, 30GB, 40GB) on all their servers and plans are available dirt cheap.  Well, their service was dirt cheap for a reason.  In my opinion, there was either significant throttling or their advertised speeds were simply impossible to reach.  Very disappointed.  This was one of those "Oh, I guess you do really get what you pay for" moments.
LayeredTech - Great in pretty much every way.  I was very satisfied with their service in terms of speed, price, and support.  Make sure you get one of the close-out/special deals.

I'll let you know how Vectoral goes once my server goes online."
(7:41:18 PM) democritus: you see their chief concern?
(7:41:19 PM) democritus: speed?
(7:41:31 PM) democritus: you have any idea what that costs when you have to buy it tier 1?
(7:42:21 PM) Jack: Actually nope
(7:42:27 PM) Jack: How much. :|
(7:42:33 PM) democritus: matt please back me up here- you were in it
(7:42:49 PM) democritus: although we do have the sourcecode for LastMile :D
(7:42:52 PM) democritus: (personal joke)
(7:44:07 PM) democritus: fuck- they went out of business it appears
(7:44:27 PM) Jack: WTF
(7:44:34 PM) Jack: Who posts as anonamous to real fourms
(7:44:41 PM) Jack: what a douchebag move
(7:44:47 PM) Jack: (A moderator too)
(7:45:36 PM) democritus: yo anybody left in the building?
(7:46:07 PM) Jack: If you were foregin based with dealing in usd/cad/pounds youd be great
(7:46:27 PM) democritus: yeah lets just write stock manipulation software
(7:46:27 PM) democritus: :/
(7:46:37 PM) Jack: xD
(7:47:04 PM) Jack: If you offered linux or windows you could win
(7:47:14 PM) Jack: Virtual server of course
(7:47:21 PM) democritus: then we would never have to work and be the stinking richest guys on the planet- and we could then pretend we deserve our 100billion
(7:47:23 PM) Jack: can't have a real windows install (ewww)
(7:48:02 PM) Jack: http://www.hivebox.net/
(7:50:05 PM) democritus: was just thinking of really wild ways to get rich :D
(7:50:23 PM) democritus: the perfect crime- well it would be a recreation- it has already been done
(7:50:31 PM) Jack: ?
(7:50:49 PM) democritus: the perfect crime is to have crminal intent- and criminal results- however no actual crime has taken place
(7:51:06 PM) democritus: :D
(7:51:16 PM) Jack: lottery?
(7:51:17 PM) Jack: :|
(7:51:30 PM) democritus: that has been done by corporations more then once
(7:51:40 PM) democritus: or rich guys
(7:51:49 PM) aegis: Invest in whatever corporations are most likely to profit from war with Iran? >.>
(7:51:50 PM) democritus: but they suck
(7:51:58 PM) democritus: lets just do an web based profit center :)
(7:52:12 PM) democritus: aegis: yeap- that would get us rich
(7:52:30 PM) democritus: if we started thinking and acting like that- but- i think that is how you define a person- how they think and act
(7:52:30 PM) democritus: :D
(7:52:44 PM) democritus: and I am not sure i am comfortable with that definition
(7:52:47 PM) aegis: Probably would make us money, might feel like dirty money though.
(7:52:56 PM) ***ThePredator still thinks that a CAD software would sell easily
(7:53:03 PM) ThePredator: We deffinatly don't have the manpower though
(7:53:07 PM) Jack: Hmm?
(7:53:12 PM) democritus: right
(7:53:13 PM) Jack: how about support
(7:53:19 PM) democritus: support is a racket
(7:53:24 PM) Jack: use a free cad in gnu
(7:53:35 PM) ThePredator: Support is hard to do with a bunch of ad hoc guys on jabber though
(7:53:38 PM) Jack: make it compeditive
(7:53:40 PM) democritus: yeah
(7:53:44 PM) democritus: agreed
(7:53:52 PM) democritus: jack?
(7:53:57 PM) democritus: the guy who takes the call get paid?
(7:53:59 PM) democritus: :D
(7:54:04 PM) Jack: lol
(7:54:09 PM) Jack: ooo
(7:54:12 PM) democritus: ThePredator: that might solve that problem
(7:54:15 PM) Jack: i like it
(7:54:16 PM) democritus: :P
(7:54:31 PM) ThePredator: XD
(7:55:27 PM) ThePredator: The web game idea would make us tons if done properly, but it will take us months to do it properly
(7:55:30 PM) democritus: and there was another type of support
(7:55:46 PM) Jack: ?
(7:55:50 PM) Jack: manuals
(7:55:52 PM) democritus: big hardware
(7:55:53 PM) Jack: traning?
(7:56:02 PM) democritus: those fucks- 
(7:56:14 PM) democritus: again, not for us, not now
(7:56:14 PM) democritus: nm
(7:57:01 PM) ThePredator: Demo, are there any sort of services that your company and similar ones need regularly but don't have much competition?
(7:57:04 PM) democritus: (for instance we have a 28k sata raid array--- they charge us 5k a year for the PRIV of answering. we still pay on top of that if we actually use the service (reduced some of course)
(7:57:22 PM) democritus: we have had it two years- 10k pissed down the drain
(7:57:27 PM) democritus: almost like we could sell insurance
(7:57:36 PM) democritus: but we would need a bankroll for that
(7:58:41 PM) democritus: so nm
(7:58:54 PM) democritus: it is a great fucking idea- 
(7:58:55 PM) ThePredator: Can we just steal some money?
(7:59:00 PM) democritus: that is a better one
(7:59:02 PM) democritus: ill drive
(8:00:03 PM) democritus: ThePredator: it was all support- and you pointed out issues with that - with us all over the place
(8:00:46 PM) Nottestuser: Demo, let's talk about storage later this evening. That's a seperate topic and someone's already in the market space where I thought I could go. But, I wouldn't mind being their client.s
(8:02:37 PM) Nottestuser: Yet another reason why I like the web game idea. We make money off the network effect ie we don't make money off direct labor so there's an opportunity to have a work/profit disconnect (uh oh, marketspeak warning...) BUT we aren't making money off of other people's labor either like insurance, war profitering, etc.
(8:03:13 PM) Nottestuser: Wow. I like "work/profit disconnect".
(8:03:44 PM) democritus: lol
(8:04:04 PM) democritus: well in the case of hw insurance - you are actualy saving the company money
(8:05:23 PM) democritus: but- again
(8:05:33 PM) democritus: web services seems to be one of the better areas
(8:05:40 PM) democritus: for our current infrastructure
(8:05:48 PM) democritus: ha!
(8:05:52 PM) democritus: (like we have one)
(8:06:42 PM) democritus: game-whatever
(8:07:16 PM) democritus: well- are we at any kind of consensus yet?
(8:07:37 PM) democritus: cause i wouldnt mind doing a few actual steps before i get too tired- no matter what those steps are
(8:08:02 PM) democritus: Nottestuser: if we went back to game- you said earlier "you knew exactly how to start....."
(8:08:09 PM) democritus: could you summarize quickly for us?
(8:08:33 PM) democritus: maybe if we hear a path- it might make people feel better? :D
(8:08:39 PM) democritus: deliver us brother matt!
(8:09:49 PM) Nottestuser: Ah, ok.
(8:10:54 PM) Nottestuser: I was going to start with the comet server portion and make a tiled structure that exchanges data between two users. That's the core of the movement mechanism which is the core user interaction with the game.
(8:11:39 PM) democritus: ok and we pretty much already have this in place on the server
(8:11:41 PM) democritus: ?
(8:12:00 PM) democritus: or... what is needed to accomplish that start
(8:12:04 PM) Nottestuser: The other things to get started on are screens that lay out the position of the game controls. In the mean time that will force you to think about the game play. If there's a button that says Fight! then what does it do? If there's one that says Fight! is there one that says Run!?
(8:12:23 PM) democritus: ok, good
(8:13:14 PM) democritus: ok, i will watch those changes and can handle documenting it if you all would like
(8:13:27 PM) democritus: - we should all re-read that doc
(8:14:02 PM) Nottestuser: Third there's the whole revenue end of things. If you had a site that got X traffic, how do yo umake money on it? Where do ads have to be? Who's ads do you use? What are some of the trade offs WRT ad netwroks and invasivness of ads and revenue generated?
(8:14:41 PM) democritus: actually jordan freely gave me alot of that info and continues to 
(8:15:03 PM) democritus: their heads reshrunk a bit
(8:15:06 PM) Nottestuser: And of course there's the buisness end. If we got $1000 from some ad company, who gets it? Who pays taxes on it? How do we balance that against costs? Do we incorporate?
(8:15:46 PM) democritus: what about setting up forums for beta testing, etc
(8:15:49 PM) aegis: If there are enough loading periods, we could place the ads there.
(8:15:51 PM) democritus: where do you put those steps?
(8:16:08 PM) democritus: aegis: cool
(8:16:37 PM) aegis: It doesn't inconvenience users and clutter the pages, so we could make loading times like commercials.
(8:17:12 PM) Nottestuser: Forums? We need somethign to test first. Later. Later. Just like I said nothing about login, account management, art, even monster stats.
(8:17:42 PM) Nottestuser: Later. Or someone else can warm it up on the back burner so its ready to go.
(8:18:29 PM) Nottestuser: A structure to recieve and distribute money, core game play technology, hang the trappings on as we go and see where that gets us.
(8:23:27 PM) democritus: back
(8:23:33 PM) democritus: sorry- got lost in a mandala
(8:26:40 PM) democritus: kk
(8:26:50 PM) democritus: shit, phone
(8:27:52 PM) Jack: a whut
(8:28:58 PM) Nottestuser: Someone else should pontificate for a while. I'm feeling like I'm railroading things.
(8:31:16 PM) democritus: ) democritus: or... what is needed to accomplish that start
(8:32:49 PM) democritus: access, tools, location
(8:33:11 PM) democritus: railroader
(8:33:49 PM) democritus: as i have about 1hr left - unless i really perk up- and i WILL do something more then blab tonight
(8:34:48 PM) democritus: also- i do not wish to waste time- if everyone is not available right this second- lets agree to be here in 15 minutes or something please
(8:35:24 PM) democritus: lurk until response
(8:36:19 PM) Nottestuser: I guess take your pick. Anyone can start the comet stuff but I think I already konw enough to get some work done there so that might not be the best place. Drawing screens would be interesting to me. I kind of have an idea about what things might look like but I'd be interested to see other people's thoughts on that without poluting them with my own.
(8:36:36 PM) Nottestuser: I know how you feel about doing the corp stuff :)
(8:37:14 PM) Jack: I'm here
(8:37:18 PM) Nottestuser: If you've already talked to the mmarmy guys abount what kinds of ads and other revenue generating things are avaialbale, maybe researching that would be a goo place to start.
(8:37:18 PM) Jack: but lost in 20 min
(8:37:20 PM) Jack: !
(8:37:28 PM) Nottestuser: Lost. Bah :)
(8:37:42 PM) democritus: ha
(8:37:44 PM) Jack: i looove lost
(8:38:11 PM) democritus: ok- i can cover - the research on ads.
(8:38:48 PM) Jack: maybe the bidding type of ads
(8:38:55 PM) Jack: or classical in media
(8:39:35 PM) democritus: sorry- matt
(8:39:39 PM) democritus: i was thinking tech perspective
(8:39:44 PM) democritus: so people do not get frustrated
(8:39:54 PM) democritus: they know their toolset- their locations, directories, etc
(8:40:22 PM) democritus: how may i serve the coders ?
(8:40:26 PM) democritus: Neverender: you shuttdup
(8:40:41 PM) democritus: but seriously- you guys dont need to playing around with standard setup shit
(8:41:06 PM) Neverender: whatd i do?
(8:41:17 PM) Neverender: oh talking
(8:41:22 PM) Nottestuser: I was going to work locally and figure out how to run it later :)
(8:42:17 PM) Nottestuser: Neverender, one of the things I'm going to have trouble with is writng the javascript and DOM manipulation stuff so it works. But I don't think that something you can help with tonight.
(8:42:18 PM) democritus: is that best?
(8:42:31 PM) democritus: i mean- what does neverend do in the meantime?
(8:42:33 PM) democritus: etc
(8:42:41 PM) democritus: how do we meld the work
(8:42:45 PM) Nottestuser: Have you been looking at Rails? There's going to need to be some data structures behind this stuff, perhaps you can do a data diagram?
(8:43:15 PM) Nottestuser: I think for the first week at least we can just monkey aroud and as long as we're not trying to do the same thing we'll be ok.
(8:43:35 PM) democritus: who gets to be the devil then?
(8:43:39 PM) democritus: we need to do things different
(8:43:42 PM) democritus: who is the PM
(8:43:47 PM) democritus: Project Manager
(8:43:55 PM) Nottestuser: After that, we'll need to have a meeting to discuss the app structure. But for the time being, at least until we've drawn all the screens, we really don't konw what we're doing.
(8:43:57 PM) democritus: THE LESS TECH THE BETTER
(8:43:58 PM) democritus: :D
(8:44:23 PM) Nottestuser: "Project Manager"?
(8:44:29 PM) democritus: yes
(8:44:31 PM) democritus: PM
(8:44:38 PM) Nottestuser: What happened to that anarchist we all knew and loved?
(8:44:41 PM) democritus: please god dont make it me
(8:44:43 PM) Jack: Saturday
(8:44:48 PM) democritus: lolz
(8:44:49 PM) Jack: operation party hard
(8:44:52 PM) Jack: >:D
(8:45:35 PM) ***Nottestuser wishes Operation Date With Cute Neighbor was on
(8:45:40 PM) Nottestuser: :(
(8:46:06 PM) Jack: Thankfully there isn't a co$ locale near m
(8:48:58 PM) Jack: http://www.scientology-kansascity.org/
(8:48:58 PM) democritus: we just need to know- tomorrow what happened today
(8:49:03 PM) Jack: o shits gonna happen
(8:49:45 PM) democritus: and have some sort of guidelines/deadlines-- goal marks
(8:50:07 PM) democritus: and....
(8:50:10 PM) democritus: some accountability
(8:50:17 PM) Nottestuser: <sigh> No one's chomping at the bit to be goal-setter?
(8:50:20 PM) democritus: if you dont plan on having it- please say so now
(8:50:25 PM) democritus: srsly- to all- 
(8:50:57 PM) Jack: ?
(8:51:40 PM) democritus: meaning- if i say i am going to look into advertising- i will put out a document to all with the research results- and what is needed code wise- with suggestion on implimentation
(8:51:44 PM) democritus: and i will have that done by X date
(8:51:56 PM) democritus: standard accomplishment stuff- goal setting and achieving
(8:52:15 PM) Jack: mm
(8:52:19 PM) Jack: maybe
(8:52:19 PM) democritus: fuck the system- but man- you gotta have some internal system yourself that is based on acheiving what you yourself want
(8:52:38 PM) democritus: we are living proof of that
(8:53:15 PM) democritus: offline communicating, emailing- true goal seting and attaining.
(8:53:25 PM) Nottestuser: Yupper. I agree. I don't think we're going to get anything hard tonight on that front but I'd be willing to start taking down people's commitments and making them public.
(8:53:27 PM) democritus: i DO THIS FOR OTHER PEOPLE EVERY FUCKING DAY OF MY LIFE
(8:53:30 PM) democritus: very successfully actually
(8:54:13 PM) democritus: I commit to having that ad information by Saturday 11pm EST
(8:54:28 PM) democritus: i dont, i fail- i should lose something
(8:54:30 PM) democritus: :(
(8:54:38 PM) Nottestuser: We're getting close to the point where we need to break up and do stuff seperatly. Anyone who's not thought of something to do, try drawing what you think the screen that people will actually run the race on should look like.
(8:54:48 PM) democritus: think so
(8:54:51 PM) Nottestuser: You get a spanking. From Elliot Spitzer.
(8:54:52 PM) democritus: thanks---
(8:54:56 PM) Jack: XD
(8:54:58 PM) democritus: oh goodie
(8:55:05 PM) Nottestuser: If you pass, we'll find you a $4300/night hooker.
(8:55:15 PM) Jack: Clen 9
(8:55:17 PM) Jack: *it
(8:55:19 PM) Nottestuser: Spanking optional, you get to tell her what to do.
(8:55:21 PM) democritus: now you are talking
(8:55:39 PM) Nottestuser: Unfortunatly we won't be paying her....
(8:55:46 PM) democritus: ok--- 
(8:55:47 PM) Nottestuser: We'll just send her to you.
(8:55:52 PM) democritus: before splitting
(8:55:57 PM) democritus: everyone who is lurking
(8:56:05 PM) Jack: NT LURK
(8:56:13 PM) democritus: i want the email you want to use for all project communications
(8:57:03 PM) democritus: i am going to summarize the points here- a bit- including matt's 4 areas
(8:57:23 PM) democritus: my old address book is still on the dead machine
(8:57:26 PM) democritus: sorry
(8:57:28 PM) Jack: i can setup my mail client
(8:57:32 PM) Jack: for j.laxson
(8:57:38 PM) democritus: whatever- i dont care
(8:57:42 PM) democritus: gmail is fine
(8:57:46 PM) Nottestuser: Also, please, please look into setting up PGP for your email client. I'd love to keep everything encrypted.
(8:58:00 PM) democritus: you really wanna go that route?
(8:58:08 PM) Nottestuser: Gmail can encrypt stuff too, Thunderbird has Enigmail.
(8:58:17 PM) Nottestuser: Seriously, the NSA reads everything.
(8:58:28 PM) democritus: dsjfldksjflksdjflksjdlfkjdsa
(8:58:31 PM) democritus: read that
(8:58:35 PM) democritus: >.<
(8:58:41 PM) democritus: (you are right of course)
(8:58:42 PM) Nottestuser: That's not tinfoil hat crap, that's really, court of law, true.
(8:58:49 PM) democritus: i know i know
(8:59:02 PM) democritus: but----- it will take me 30hrs with these guys getting them to configure it!~
(8:59:19 PM) Nottestuser: It's only a matter of time before your email ends up in the same place as your tax records: on the desk of the private investigator with the best contacts.
(8:59:56 PM) Nottestuser: They can't figure out Enigmail?
(9:00:02 PM) Jack: lost
(9:00:04 PM) ***democritus whistles
(9:00:11 PM) Nottestuser: They can't figure out hos to connect to google with Thunderbird?
(9:00:22 PM) Nottestuser: Take care Jack
(9:01:02 PM) Nottestuser: I'm out too. Dog walking time. I will commit to nothing at this time beyond figuring out what to commit to later :)
(9:01:25 PM) democritus: well- i wont do the ads then
(9:01:29 PM) democritus: :)
(9:01:38 PM) Nottestuser: No, no, do
(9:01:44 PM) democritus: just saying
(9:01:56 PM) democritus: i aint wasting another fucking minute of my time
(9:01:58 PM) Nottestuser: I'm just not exactly sure what milestones I can reach besides just fiddling with stuff.
(9:02:06 PM) democritus: not mad at anyone- i am just very very resolute
(9:02:18 PM) democritus: oh that is different
(9:02:38 PM) Nottestuser: Until I've fiddle with it. So I guess I can commit to fiddling with comet stuff by 11 pm Sat. Maybe Sat pm we can do another team get together.
(9:02:56 PM) democritus: think so---
(9:03:24 PM) democritus: no kid that day- 1/2 day personal responsibilities- then i am free from kid- and i would love to build my future with that time
(9:04:49 PM) Jack: UGH
(9:04:56 PM) Jack: why is it dling 300 old ewmails
(9:05:00 PM) Jack: fucking mail.app
(9:05:49 PM) Jack: DIE!
(9:06:54 PM) Jack: oh
(9:06:59 PM) Jack: it was using pop
(9:07:01 PM) Jack: fucking morons
(9:07:03 PM) Jack: STMP
(9:07:05 PM) Jack: <3
(9:11:51 PM) ThePredator: I check thepredator66@gmail.com most often
(9:12:55 PM) Jack: i'll setup j.laxson@pacg
(9:13:01 PM) Jack: where is the setup shit
(9:13:02 PM) Jack: :P
(9:14:34 PM) Nottestuser: matt@badmatt.com
(9:15:15 PM) Jack: http://pacificaglobal.com/wiki/doku.php/documentation_email_help
(9:15:17 PM) Jack: found
(9:16:13 PM) Jack: STEEVEEE
(9:17:05 PM) Jack: can you haxx0r my email pw?
(9:17:15 PM) Jack: (change it or find logs)
(9:18:19 PM) aegis: ^ I need the same on my PacG account as well if it is possible, please.
(9:18:28 PM) Jack: <3
(9:18:59 PM) aegis: Tried every password I can think of and it doesn't work, so it is probably a password someone setup for me.
(9:19:06 PM) ***aegis shrugs.
(9:19:25 PM) democritus: kk
(9:20:10 PM) democritus: let me get into server
(9:20:15 PM) democritus: aegis: i wrote you a small book
(9:20:16 PM) democritus: :D
(9:20:56 PM) Jack: XD
(9:25:08 PM) democritus: oh shi....
(9:25:13 PM) democritus: all the mysql history is gone
(9:25:14 PM) democritus: :(
(9:25:21 PM) Jack: ?? XD
(9:25:37 PM) democritus: thats how you change passwords
(9:25:53 PM) democritus: fuck just do it yourself from the phpmyadmin
(9:25:56 PM) democritus: :)
(9:26:33 PM) Jack: whats login?
(9:26:41 PM) democritus: although dont- cause somehow- after i did that work setting up realms, and it worked perfectly- our only phpmyadmin install is under fnf.org/
(9:26:43 PM) democritus: not even ssl
(9:27:49 PM) Jack: whats the realm
(9:27:50 PM) Jack: >:(
(9:29:39 PM) democritus: home directory .jack
(9:29:48 PM) democritus: phpmyadmin info
(9:30:24 PM) Jack: i found it
(9:30:54 PM) democritus: reset aegis's too please
(9:33:01 PM) democritus: looking at the maillist on the sql page
(9:33:09 PM) democritus: we need to cut the "official" ranks a bit- 
(9:33:21 PM) democritus: free to come back and pitch in and all that in my book
(9:33:28 PM) democritus: but just dumb to have their accounts there
(9:33:45 PM) democritus: its not like they are using that email account anyway
(9:41:38 PM) democritus: Ok i am off for the evening- spent longer theni planned- will seal this all up in email(s) in the morning when brain is fresh- and i can summarize all this crap- - but from there- i am going to see.  again - i am not in this along and i am not wasting any more of my fucking time
(9:41:45 PM) democritus: later chums :D
(9:41:52 PM) democritus: (sharkbait)
(9:43:29 PM) Jack: lol
(9:43:57 PM) aegis left the room.
(9:44:21 PM) aegis [aegis@pacificaglobal.com/pacificaglobal.com] entered the room.
(9:44:32 PM) democritus: lol
(9:44:39 PM) democritus: though i pissed you off there for a second
(9:44:40 PM) democritus: :)
That command doesn't work on this protocol.
(9:45:31 PM) You are now known as Demo_away
(9:46:22 PM) Demo_away: oh- in morning email i will include link to the document we did on the game
(9:47:10 PM) aegis: http://writer.zoho.com/wo/jsp/guestView.jsp?PG_ID=N68672x6700kx6700kx67a4Rc3-d6DQ9N0b6i0C0c6g1Wc9c95ggE6d83e8eO61ew ?