1.
      [2008-02-01 20:10:52] <&A9> xorian: how much do you think you could upload onto what in 30 days
   2.
      [2008-02-01 20:11:15] <&A9> if you were doing everything you could to get a massive e-penis on our tracker
   3.
      [2008-02-01 20:11:25] <@xorian> Hm.
   4.
      [2008-02-01 20:11:41] <@xorian> With my home connection - 1 GB or so :P
   5.
      [2008-02-01 20:11:47] <@xorian> With a seedbox .. 700 GB or so?
   6.
      [2008-02-01 20:11:50] <@LogicalUser> theres what, 10-20 scene albums released a day that could be uploaded? :P
   7.
      [2008-02-01 20:11:56] <@LogicalUser> often more?
   8.
      [2008-02-01 20:11:58] <&A9> with approximately what ratio?
   9.
      [2008-02-01 20:12:18] <&A9> 3.0? 5.0?
  10.
      [2008-02-01 20:12:25] <@xorian> Depends from the material ..
  11.
      [2008-02-01 20:12:32] <&A9> guess
  12.
      [2008-02-01 20:12:49] <@xorian> The ratio I would have after 30 days of uploading my stuff?
  13.
      [2008-02-01 20:13:10] * @xorian ponders.
  14.
      [2008-02-01 20:13:14] <@xorian> 150 ? :P
  15.
      [2008-02-01 20:14:45] <@xorian> Why?
  16.
      [2008-02-01 20:15:56] <&A9> i have an idea to fix the economy
  17.
      [2008-02-01 20:16:04] <&A9> iv been doing it myself
  18.
      [2008-02-01 20:16:22] <&A9> but if we got the whole staff on board, it could seriously do something
  19.
      [2008-02-01 20:16:38] <@FZeroX> what?
  20.
      [2008-02-01 20:16:39] <@xorian> Want me to supply some music? :P
  21.
      [2008-02-01 20:16:42] <&A9> we essentially have the staff horde as much upload as possible
  22.
      [2008-02-01 20:16:48] <&A9> on their non-staff accounts
  23.
      [2008-02-01 20:16:53] <&A9> then reset it
  24.
      [2008-02-01 20:16:56] <&Zero_Cool> We cannot upload on the seedbox. it is tied to the site.
  25.
      [2008-02-01 20:17:21] <&Zero_Cool> Seriously puts the site in jeopardy legally.
  26.
      [2008-02-01 20:17:46] <@LogicalUser> so, we need a patsy to 'upload' them? :P
  27.
      [2008-02-01 20:17:47] * @xorian prepares some albums, just in case.
  28.
      [2008-02-01 20:18:12] <&Zero_Cool> exactly logical.
  29.
      [2008-02-01 20:18:12] <@xorian> I could ask a fellow scener to fxp uhm, say 100gb of vinyl stuff? :P
  30.
      [2008-02-01 20:18:25] <&Zero_Cool> xorian WE cannot upload from the box.
  31.
      [2008-02-01 20:18:30] <&A9> what i mean is
  32.
      [2008-02-01 20:18:30] <@xorian> Zero_Cool, I know :)
  33.
      [2008-02-01 20:18:38] <@xorian> What I ment was, you'd have some stuff to upload!
  34.
      [2008-02-01 20:18:39] <@xorian> ;)
  35.
      [2008-02-01 20:18:42] <&A9> we need to get as much ratio as possible into accounts we can reset
  36.
      [2008-02-01 20:18:45] <@FZeroX> I love how we're talking about fixing the economy while there's a non-time-limited freeleech announced on the front page
  37.
      [2008-02-01 20:18:59] <@xorian> FZeroX, good point.
  38.
      [2008-02-01 20:19:01] <&A9> which will essentailly remove x00 gigs from the economy
  39.
      [2008-02-01 20:19:13] <@xorian> A9, freeleech should be= free upload and free download :p
  40.
      [2008-02-01 20:19:22] * @LogicalUser throws the seedbox on the new freeleech
  41.
      [2008-02-01 20:19:29] <&A9> if we could remove something like 1 TB, then we can undo all our current damage
  42.
      [2008-02-01 20:19:33] <&Zero_Cool> That album will be forever freeleech. IT is a partnership with the artist.
  43.
      [2008-02-01 20:19:34] <@FZeroX> [20:02] <@FZeroX> I'm working on it
  44.
      [2008-02-01 20:19:50] <&A9> xorian: kills incentive
  45.
      [2008-02-01 20:20:00] <@FZeroX> no it doesn't
  46.
      [2008-02-01 20:20:01] <@xorian> incentive?
  47.
      [2008-02-01 20:20:06] <&A9> makes users treat those like public trackers
  48.
      [2008-02-01 20:20:10] <@FZeroX> so many users said they downloaded the staff picks just cos they're awesome and it's new users
  49.
      [2008-02-01 20:20:19] <@xorian>         something that incites or tends to incite to action or greater effort, as a reward offered for increased productivity.
  50.
      [2008-02-01 20:20:19] <@FZeroX> and enough will seed out of heart goodness to keep them going
  51.
      [2008-02-01 20:20:20] <@xorian> Hm.
  52.
      [2008-02-01 20:20:24] <&A9> most people dont seed more then they need to cause they're lazy asses
  53.
      [2008-02-01 20:20:37] <@FZeroX> well then abolish freeleech
  54.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:01] <@FZeroX> you're trying to fix something which is breaking at a rate far faster than we can ever meet
  55.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:05] <&A9> we cant abolish it
  56.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:07] <&A9> to many complaints
  57.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:11] <@xorian> Either remove the freeleech, or make uploading not count for freeleech as well. Too many people get their ratio from freeleech things.
  58.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:14] <&A9> we need to find a balance
  59.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:15] <&Zero_Cool> Try having that discussion with Whatman.. You have no idea how happy he is about this recent event.
  60.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:16] <@LogicalUser> the incentive is.... free albums?
  61.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:19] <@FZeroX> we CAN abolish it
  62.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:19] <@MattieTK> screw complaints, this is a dictatorship -_-
  63.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:22] <@FZeroX> just explain WHY
  64.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:26] <@LogicalUser> it doesnt have to be good for ratio
  65.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:36] <@dblaze|gone> I thought we decided that in gazelle, upload and download will be free?
  66.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:38] *** dblaze|gone changed nick to dblaze
  67.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:40] <&A9> the requests system can counterbalance small scale freeleech
  68.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:42] <@xorian> We run the site, screw the people who complain because they could no longer download stuff for free
  69.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:42] <@dblaze> 'mornin guys
  70.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:51] <@FZeroX> there is no such thing as small scale freeleech
  71.
      [2008-02-01 20:21:57] <&A9> but we need to undo the damage which has all ready been done
  72.
      [2008-02-01 20:22:03] <@dblaze> seriously, why are we still talking about this?
  73.
      [2008-02-01 20:22:05] <&A9> yes there is
  74.
      [2008-02-01 20:22:17] <@xorian> A9, simply keep a staff vote? :p
  75.
      [2008-02-01 20:22:17] <&A9> dblaze: it got brought up and i have an idea to fix it
  76.
      [2008-02-01 20:22:25] <@dblaze> ok
  77.
      [2008-02-01 20:22:35] <@MattieTK> there isn't, once someone sees something on freeleech, everyone is going to hop on to gain ratio, even if they don't want the album
  78.
      [2008-02-01 20:22:36] <@dblaze> but isn't it going to be fixed in gazelle? free up and down?
  79.
      [2008-02-01 20:22:37] <@FZeroX> there is no way we can undo the damage
  80.
      [2008-02-01 20:22:45] <@FZeroX> just me on the last freeleech on just one album did 35 gigs upload
  81.
      [2008-02-01 20:23:01] <@dblaze> how the fuck did you do that? on your seedbox?
  82.
      [2008-02-01 20:23:11] <@LogicalUser> FZeroX, good, ratio in the hands of someone whos not gonna abuse/ride that 35gb for the next few months
  83.
      [2008-02-01 20:23:15] <&A9> everyone STFU
  84.
      [2008-02-01 20:23:32] <@dblaze> hehe
  85.
      [2008-02-01 20:23:55] <&A9> at the moment, everything is fine
  86.
      [2008-02-01 20:24:02] <@FZeroX> yeah I was uploading at almost 50% capacity at one point :P
  87.
      [2008-02-01 20:24:07] <@FZeroX> (6 megabytes per second)
  88.
      [2008-02-01 20:24:07] <&A9> im talking about undoing damage which was done in the PAST
  89.
      [2008-02-01 20:24:10] <@FZeroX> ok
  90.
      [2008-02-01 20:24:16] <@dblaze> okay A9
  91.
      [2008-02-01 20:24:20] <&A9> ie the 10 gigs free for 2,000 users
  92.
      [2008-02-01 20:24:21] <@dblaze> but I missed the start of this
  93.
      [2008-02-01 20:24:25] <&A9> and all that crap
  94.
      [2008-02-01 20:24:28] <@FZeroX> Rob Dougan - Furious Angels, together the FLAC and V0 add up to 1.6 TERABYTES of free credit
  95.
      [2008-02-01 20:24:28] <@dblaze> right
  96.
      [2008-02-01 20:24:34] <@FZeroX> that's ONE choice on ONE freeleech
  97.
      [2008-02-01 20:24:43] <&A9> we need to somehow extract upload from the economy
  98.
      [2008-02-01 20:24:50] <@dblaze> agreed
  99.
      [2008-02-01 20:24:52] <@LogicalUser> how many users got the 12gb bonus at start?
 100.
      [2008-02-01 20:25:00] <@FZeroX> if all of us hoard upload and blank accounts.. we'll barely scratch that
 101.
      [2008-02-01 20:25:01] <&A9> which is why i suggested hoarding ratio on non-staff accounts
 102.
      [2008-02-01 20:25:08] <&A9> and just removing it on those accounts
 103.
      [2008-02-01 20:25:16] <@dblaze> interesting
 104.
      [2008-02-01 20:25:20] <@dblaze> how do we do that?
 105.
      [2008-02-01 20:25:23] <@LogicalUser> its a good idea for small-scale upload recovery
 106.
      [2008-02-01 20:25:24] <@xorian> A9, we're talking about massive amounts that have to be uploaded ..
 107.
      [2008-02-01 20:25:24] <&A9> if one staffer downloads 50 gigs and uploads 100 gigs
 108.
      [2008-02-01 20:25:26] <@FZeroX> about 50GB of my 108GB uploaded isn't accounted for by freeleech :P
 109.
      [2008-02-01 20:25:32] <@FZeroX> and I upload quite a few torrents
 110.
      [2008-02-01 20:25:35] <@FZeroX> this problem is *huge*
 111.
      [2008-02-01 20:25:40] <&A9> we can just scratch that, and 50 gigs out the economy
 112.
      [2008-02-01 20:26:05] <&A9> its not much
 113.
      [2008-02-01 20:26:07] <@FZeroX> 20 staffers
 114.
      [2008-02-01 20:26:09] <&A9> but its a start
 115.
      [2008-02-01 20:26:11] <@FZeroX> 50 gigs each a month?
 116.
      [2008-02-01 20:26:21] <@MattieTK> we need more than that, it's a start, but we don't all own seedboxes, and even if we did, we couldn't remove 20,000GB for about a year
 117.
      [2008-02-01 20:26:37] <@FZeroX> in one month we could remove the impact of.. not even one album from one freeleech
 118.
      [2008-02-01 20:26:41] <@dblaze> I can't afford that much bandwidth to my home isp
 119.
      [2008-02-01 20:26:43] <@FZeroX> how many freeleeches do we do a month?
 120.
      [2008-02-01 20:26:48] <@xorian> Me neither.
 121.
      [2008-02-01 20:26:50] <&Zero_Cool> whats the current download vs upload totals?
 122.
      [2008-02-01 20:26:53] <@xorian> My limit is way too small.
 123.
      [2008-02-01 20:26:59] <@dblaze> Zero_Cool are you sylar?
 124.
      [2008-02-01 20:27:03] <&A9> Zero_Cool: approx 3.0
 125.
      [2008-02-01 20:27:12] <&A9> Zero_Cool: /nick qMark
 126.
      [2008-02-01 20:27:17] <@FZeroX> with seven picks in a freeleech, using A9's system, we could do one freeleech every 7 months and we'd break even
 127.
      [2008-02-01 20:27:17] <@dblaze> ah
 128.
      [2008-02-01 20:27:19] <&Zero_Cool> haha nah :P
 129.
      [2008-02-01 20:27:20] <@dblaze> hehe
 130.
      [2008-02-01 20:27:40] <@FZeroX> maybe.
 131.
      [2008-02-01 20:27:51] <@dblaze> what about amnesty?
 132.
      [2008-02-01 20:27:52] <&A9> well we need other ideas then
 133.
      [2008-02-01 20:27:55] <&Zero_Cool> the freeleech system is changing when we have the ability.    Its just not stopping suddenly.
 134.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:00] <@dblaze> like they do for guns?
 135.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:02] <@LogicalUser> does the 'bounty' system for requests remove ratio on the whole? or just redistribute?
 136.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:10] <&Zero_Cool> removes
 137.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:13] <@FZeroX> Zero_Cool, it's like I'm saying one thing and you're hearing another
 138.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:13] <@LogicalUser> k
 139.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:15] <@MattieTK> imo it needs to stop until we have the ability
 140.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:24] <@dblaze> surrender ratio in exchange for something else. like a couple invites, or a special user class?
 141.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:24] <@LogicalUser> mattieTK the plan is 1 more freeleech
 142.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:30] <@FZeroX> this problem has already reached the point where we can't fix it and every freeleech makes it worse
 143.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:34] <@MattieTK> i'm not involved in that then
 144.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:37] <@dblaze> huh? tell me if anyone likes that idea
 145.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:45] <@xorian> Pff, freeleech should just stop. There's no easy way to fix the ratio economy on the site, to undo the damage freeleech torrents do.
 146.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:46] <@LogicalUser> or last i heard?
 147.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:58] <&A9> LogicalUser: removes a %
 148.
      [2008-02-01 20:28:59] <@MattieTK> i'm boycotting staff picks until someone codes it to be a zerosum system
 149.
      [2008-02-01 20:29:10] <&Zero_Cool> have funb
 150.
      [2008-02-01 20:29:13] <&Zero_Cool> boycott away
 151.
      [2008-02-01 20:29:14] <@MattieTK> hope a few others might join me
 152.
      [2008-02-01 20:29:14] <@dblaze> I said this like two rounds ago, that they were bad
 153.
      [2008-02-01 20:29:15] <@LogicalUser> a9 hmm?
 154.
      [2008-02-01 20:29:21] <@dblaze> earlier even
 155.
      [2008-02-01 20:29:22] * FZeroX is in on the boycott too
 156.
      [2008-02-01 20:29:43] <@dblaze> hey guys, please respond to my idea above
 157.
      [2008-02-01 20:29:44] <@FZeroX> I hoped my seedbox would "soak up" a lot in the last one but it barely scratched it.. I accounted for 5%, I think it was
 158.
      [2008-02-01 20:29:45] <&A9> LogicalUser: it redistributes and garnishes 50%
 159.
      [2008-02-01 20:29:53] <@LogicalUser> a9 ahh, k
 160.
      [2008-02-01 20:29:58] <@FZeroX> dblaze: dunno if anyone would do it, plus invites are closed atm
 161.
      [2008-02-01 20:29:59] <&A9> one could call it a tax almost
 162.
      [2008-02-01 20:30:08] <@dblaze> well, give them something
 163.
      [2008-02-01 20:30:20] <@FZeroX> how many users have we got on risingtide?
 164.
      [2008-02-01 20:30:22] <@dblaze> eh? why don't we just ask users to surrend it
 165.
      [2008-02-01 20:30:28] <@FZeroX> if we combine risingtide with seedboxes...
 166.
      [2008-02-01 20:30:41] <@FZeroX> and then get them to give up their excessive upload stats
 167.
      [2008-02-01 20:30:54] <@MattieTK> we cant ask that of them
 168.
      [2008-02-01 20:31:18] <@MattieTK> that would cause an outry larger than the one we'd get if we just stopped freeleech
 169.
      [2008-02-01 20:31:29] <@FZeroX> not really, there's only like 5 users using it :P
 170.
      [2008-02-01 20:31:38] <@LogicalUser> our VIPs would start an uprising over upload stats?
 171.
      [2008-02-01 20:31:39] <@LogicalUser> doubtful
 172.
      [2008-02-01 20:31:43] <@MattieTK> i mean if we asked users to surrender upload
 173.
      [2008-02-01 20:31:52] <@FZeroX> they're all VIPs
 174.
      [2008-02-01 20:32:01] <@MattieTK> secondly, we'd be admitting we made a huge mistake
 175.
      [2008-02-01 20:32:06] <@dblaze> why not though?
 176.
      [2008-02-01 20:32:10] <@dblaze> yeah, I thought of that
 177.
      [2008-02-01 20:32:12] <@dblaze> bad PR
 178.
      [2008-02-01 20:32:39] <@FZeroX> new thought: mathematically this is a problem, but is it a problem in reality?
 179.
      [2008-02-01 20:32:49] <@MattieTK> yes
 180.
      [2008-02-01 20:32:49] <@dblaze> we all need to agree on something
 181.
      [2008-02-01 20:32:53] <@dblaze> I think so
 182.
      [2008-02-01 20:32:54] <@FZeroX> does the numerical problem produce a real-world problem that can't be fixed through other means?
 183.
      [2008-02-01 20:33:00] <@LogicalUser> keep in mind there is constant influx of new data
 184.
      [2008-02-01 20:33:04] <@dblaze> I was just gonna say this threatens to dismantle the entire community
 185.
      [2008-02-01 20:33:07] <@FZeroX> what is the effect then?
 186.
      [2008-02-01 20:33:09] <&Zero_Cool> You are all just going to run in circles because well you need to have WhatMan in this discussion and that won't happen for 2 more weeks.. There is one more freeleech prior to gazelle in all likelihood. so really chill.
 187.
      [2008-02-01 20:33:10] <&A9> FZeroX: no
 188.
      [2008-02-01 20:33:19] <&A9> in math its a problem
 189.
      [2008-02-01 20:33:27] <@LogicalUser> always new music, new releases being uploaded
 190.
      [2008-02-01 20:33:27] <&A9> and its not something im fond of
 191.
      [2008-02-01 20:33:43] <@MattieTK> Zero_Cool: i believe staff consensus should rule if we get a vast amount of agreement until whatman comes back
 192.
      [2008-02-01 20:33:44] <&A9> but if we stop freeleeching new stuff from this point on, then its all good
 193.
      [2008-02-01 20:33:47] <@xorian> Pff. Make freeleech torrents for PU+ only. Problem solved :P
 194.
      [2008-02-01 20:33:53] <&Zero_Cool> No it doesnt MattieTK
 195.
      [2008-02-01 20:33:59] <@LogicalUser> there wont be another freeleech until after whatman comes back anyways, right?
 196.
      [2008-02-01 20:34:04] <@LogicalUser> by the dates anyways?
 197.
      [2008-02-01 20:34:06] <&A9> im trying to come up with a counterbalance
 198.
      [2008-02-01 20:34:07] <&Zero_Cool> It is a dictatorship as you even said we do not make big changes
 199.
      [2008-02-01 20:34:09] <@FZeroX> whatman trusts us enough to make some decisions ''-_-
 200.
      [2008-02-01 20:34:14] <@MattieTK> LogicalUser: Zero_Cool isn't listening to us so he'll do one anyway
 201.
      [2008-02-01 20:34:17] <&Zero_Cool> WE do not make those changes
 202.
      [2008-02-01 20:34:23] <&A9> some way which we dont need to change our current behaviour
 203.
      [2008-02-01 20:34:28] <@FZeroX> if he comes back and we say "yeah we didn't do a freeleech because we were worried" he's not gonna flip
 204.
      [2008-02-01 20:34:32] <&A9> but still keep everyone happy
 205.
      [2008-02-01 20:34:35] <&A9> and the gr low
 206.
      [2008-02-01 20:34:37] <@FZeroX> that's not making a change, that's inaction
 207.
      [2008-02-01 20:34:43] <@xorian> A9, outbalancing terabytes is not gonna be easy :P
 208.
      [2008-02-01 20:34:48] <@LogicalUser> MattieTK, last i heard the 'plan' was 1 more freeleech before gazzelle
 209.
      [2008-02-01 20:34:53] <@dblaze> agreed, we don't make big changes like that. but, we need to have this discussion at some point to come up with solutions
 210.
      [2008-02-01 20:35:01] <@MattieTK> A9: just pause it until we can rewrite the freeleech system, or work out how to do it, FZeroX is already looking into it for us
 211.
      [2008-02-01 20:35:03] <&Zero_Cool> right but have it with him present.
 212.
      [2008-02-01 20:35:05] <@LogicalUser> and didnt someone say 2-3weeks between freeleeches?
 213.
      [2008-02-01 20:35:11] <@FZeroX> ok
 214.
      [2008-02-01 20:35:15] <&A9> ok
 215.
      [2008-02-01 20:35:19] <&A9> now i have stuff to do
 216.
      [2008-02-01 20:35:23] <@FZeroX> what is the real world significance of this economic imbalance? what is the effect?
 217.
      [2008-02-01 20:35:25] <&A9> so change the topic :P
 218.
      [2008-02-01 20:35:28] <&A9> so i can get back to work
 219.
      [2008-02-01 20:35:34] <@FZeroX> MattieTK: ?
 220.
      [2008-02-01 20:35:40] <@dblaze> well, we can still have it, so that we have some workable ideas to then discuss when he gets back, know what I mean? there's still value in hammering something out
 221.
      [2008-02-01 20:36:09] <@dblaze> FZeroX: the effect is people don't seed, our torrents aren't well seeded and fast, and people look elsewhere for their music torrents
 222.
      [2008-02-01 20:36:15] <@FZeroX> ok
 223.
      [2008-02-01 20:36:19] <@dblaze> then we lose
 224.
      [2008-02-01 20:36:20] <@FZeroX> can we not fix that through other means
 225.
      [2008-02-01 20:36:24] <@MattieTK> real wold significance FZeroX? well, upload will devalue, peeople will upload less and hit and run more becuase they dont need to keep things seeded, it will also result in a greater gap between users at the top and users at the bottom, who will find it very hard to seed
 226.
      [2008-02-01 20:36:27] <@FZeroX> bitmetv have systems to track hit n runners
 227.
      [2008-02-01 20:36:36] <@dblaze> I see where you're going with this, maybe there is
 228.
      [2008-02-01 20:36:39] <@dblaze> but not afaik
 229.
      [2008-02-01 20:36:43] <@FZeroX> blueboybob is continually whinging about hit and runners
 230.
      [2008-02-01 20:36:49] <@FZeroX> is ratio more important than not hit n running? no
 231.
      [2008-02-01 20:36:57] <&Zero_Cool> no its not at all
 232.
      [2008-02-01 20:37:00] <@FZeroX> can we make a system to track and punish hit n runners? yes
 233.
      [2008-02-01 20:37:04] <&Zero_Cool> and thats why there are hit and run rules now.
 234.
      [2008-02-01 20:37:12] <@FZeroX> would banning persistent hit n runners remove 100s of gigabytes from the economy? yes
 235.
      [2008-02-01 20:37:16] <&Zero_Cool> that is the big issue.
 236.
      [2008-02-01 20:37:18] <@MattieTK> we wouldnt need hit and run rules if ratio wasn't so abundant
 237.
      [2008-02-01 20:37:26] <@FZeroX> disagree, it's always a problem
 238.
      [2008-02-01 20:37:37] <&Zero_Cool> Seeding is > than ratio always.
 239.
      [2008-02-01 20:37:42] <@MattieTK> it would be much, much less of a probelm
 240.
      [2008-02-01 20:37:51] <@MattieTK> people would feel the need to seed
 241.
      [2008-02-01 20:37:55] <@FZeroX> well I think we can kill both birds with one stone
 242.
      [2008-02-01 20:38:00] <&Zero_Cool> If there were hit and run rules there would be no ratio issues
 243.
      [2008-02-01 20:38:11] <@dblaze> right
 244.
      [2008-02-01 20:38:21] <@dblaze> because the end negative result of ratio glut is no seeding
 245.
      [2008-02-01 20:38:30] <@LogicalUser> can we get a way to reset a user's ratio? i could see myself removing a fair bit of the 10gb upload credit from old, inactive users
 246.
      [2008-02-01 20:38:34] <@dblaze> so if people had to seed, I guess it wouldn't matter so much
 247.
      [2008-02-01 20:38:45] <@LogicalUser> could probably net a good 5TB of upload removed
 248.
      [2008-02-01 20:38:47] <@FZeroX> so if we had: a) freeleech being 0/0 and b) anti hit and running tracking
 249.
      [2008-02-01 20:38:50] <@FZeroX> this problem would end?
 250.
      [2008-02-01 20:38:53] <@MattieTK> yes
 251.
      [2008-02-01 20:38:58] <@LogicalUser> and inactive users cant bitch about their stats
 252.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:00] <@xorian> A9
 253.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:03] <@MattieTK> through slow filtration of users
 254.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:04] <@xorian> I have a great idea!
 255.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:10] <@xorian> Hm
 256.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:13] <&A9> tell!
 257.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:14] <@xorian> No, I don't. Never mind :)
 258.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:18] <@FZeroX> removing upload from inactive users will NOT help
 259.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:19] * @LogicalUser hates reactivating some chump who gets to keep his 10gb upload credit
 260.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:20] <&A9> asdufaekj;cS
 261.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:21] <@MattieTK> i knew it xorian
 262.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:23] <&Zero_Cool> yes it would FZeroX and me and whatman have discussed the hit and run thing greatly. He wants it. but we need a script.
 263.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:23] <&A9> BOOOO
 264.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:25] <@xorian> I thought, let's remove some ratios of dsabled users.
 265.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:28] <@FZeroX> that isn't in circulation, so it's already removed
 266.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:34] <@LogicalUser> FZeroX i just meant, when we re-enable them
 267.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:36] <@MattieTK> lol xorian
 268.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:39] <@FZeroX> yes
 269.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:40] <&A9> lmao
 270.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:41] <@LogicalUser> not while disabled
 271.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:41] <@FZeroX> oooooooh!
 272.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:45] <@dblaze> hehe
 273.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:52] <@FZeroX> when we reenable disabled users, take them back down to 1.0
 274.
      [2008-02-01 20:39:52] <@dblaze> I like that idea LogicalUser
 275.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:02] <@dblaze> yes, that would be a great start
 276.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:08] <@dblaze> like in D&D
 277.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:14] <@LogicalUser> all i need is a way to do that, without having to harass A9 each time? :P
 278.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:20] <&Zero_Cool> yeah most of the disables that get re enabled are our mistake
 279.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:23] <&Zero_Cool> we cannot do that
 280.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:26] <@dblaze> if you get resurrected, you come back with only 2HP, not your macx
 281.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:28] <@xorian> A9
 282.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:31] <@FZeroX> Zero_Cool: no
 283.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:33] <@xorian> How's the anti cheat idea going?
 284.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:34] <@FZeroX> that's completely untrue
 285.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:37] <@LogicalUser> zero_cool i'm jus sayin the 'barely/never' used accounts
 286.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:40] <@xorian> Firon isn't very helpful I assume?
 287.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:41] <&Zero_Cool> the only ones that are not our mistake are inactive which have no ratio to take.
 288.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:50] <@FZeroX> that's not true either
 289.
      [2008-02-01 20:40:52] <@LogicalUser> zero_cool inactive ones do have ratio, the 10gb
 290.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:03] <@FZeroX> I keep reenabling users who were inactive long enough to get banned but have ratio
 291.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:15] <&Zero_Cool> those were our mistakes too
 292.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:19] <&Zero_Cool> the script does not work.
 293.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:22] <@FZeroX> if they're inactive we give them their account back on the grounds that we take their ratio down to 1.0
 294.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:27] <@FZeroX> plenty of them are legit
 295.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:27] <&Zero_Cool> half of the disables were seeding well disabled.
 296.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:30] <@MattieTK> guys, what's the maximum DL amount you can have before people can be disabled for their ratio?
 297.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:36] <@FZeroX> 5GB
 298.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:43] <@MattieTK> seriously?
 299.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:49] <@MattieTK> we have a lot of work to do them
 300.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:49] <@dblaze> but that's just academic at this point
 301.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:55] <@LogicalUser> uhh, doesnt ratio watch kick in at 10gb?
 302.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:55] <@MattieTK> i'll call it 15
 303.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:56] <@dblaze> it's not scripted in afaik
 304.
      [2008-02-01 20:41:56] <@FZeroX> Zero_Cool, I've only been in the disabled chan a little bit but more users are genuine inactives than not
 305.
      [2008-02-01 20:42:12] <@LogicalUser> there are definetly ALOT of actual inactive users
 306.
      [2008-02-01 20:42:16] <@MattieTK> guys
 307.
      [2008-02-01 20:42:17] <@dblaze> no, it kicks in at 5
 308.
      [2008-02-01 20:42:30] <@MattieTK> from now on can we stop enabling people who have been disabled for ratio
 309.
      [2008-02-01 20:42:37] <&A9> LogicalUser: a way to do what?
 310.
      [2008-02-01 20:42:44] <@FZeroX> I've never reenabled someone who has been disabled for ratio
 311.
      [2008-02-01 20:42:48] <@LogicalUser> a9 reset a user's ratio when we re-enable
 312.
      [2008-02-01 20:42:55] <@LogicalUser> for those who are at 10gb up, 0 down
 313.
      [2008-02-01 20:43:03] <&A9> oh, ratio controls
 314.
      [2008-02-01 20:43:33] <@dblaze> MattieTK: we pretty much do anyway. when I look at their stats, I only enable people who got wrongly disabled it seems
 315.
      [2008-02-01 20:43:41] <@MattieTK> good
 316.
      [2008-02-01 20:43:45] <@MattieTK> cause i'm killing about 15 accounts
 317.
      [2008-02-01 20:43:48] <@dblaze> but if they'd get disabled if the new system was in place, then they don't get it back
 318.
      [2008-02-01 20:44:02] <&Zero_Cool> MattieTK killing them for what?
 319.
      [2008-02-01 20:44:10] <@MattieTK> terrible ratios
 320.
      [2008-02-01 20:44:15] <@dblaze> like the guy who leeched a 35GB torrent, then couldn't figure out why his account was disabled
 321.
      [2008-02-01 20:44:15] <&Zero_Cool> they have time after having 5gb down to be disabled
 322.
      [2008-02-01 20:44:16] <@FZeroX> I was instructed to reenable users who were genuinely inactive if they solemnly swear to use it and upload etc
 323.
      [2008-02-01 20:44:17] <@dblaze> he's gone
 324.
      [2008-02-01 20:44:42] <@MattieTK> Zero_Cool: these guys are peons and have over 15gb down
 325.
      [2008-02-01 20:44:45] <@dblaze> I have also been giving people a second chance for that too FZeroX, but tell them they'll not get a third
 326.
      [2008-02-01 20:44:49] <@MattieTK> and ratios less than 0.1
 327.
      [2008-02-01 20:44:51] <@MattieTK> 0.01*
 328.
      [2008-02-01 20:44:53] <@LogicalUser> i've re-enabled maybe 10 people for ratio so far
 329.
      [2008-02-01 20:44:59] <@LogicalUser> 8 of whom are above 0.5 now
 330.
      [2008-02-01 20:45:06] <@FZeroX> I've enabled like 3 or something
 331.
      [2008-02-01 20:45:07] <@dblaze> MattieTK: how long as memeber?
 332.
      [2008-02-01 20:45:14] <@MattieTK> weeks
 333.
      [2008-02-01 20:45:18] <@dblaze> disable
 334.
      [2008-02-01 20:45:21] <@MattieTK> exactly
 335.
      [2008-02-01 20:45:36] <&A9> ok
 336.
      [2008-02-01 20:45:44] <@dblaze> I've processed probably 100-150 disabled users in that channel so far
 337.
      [2008-02-01 20:45:51] <&A9> everyone slow down for a second and update me with wtf is going on?
 338.
      [2008-02-01 20:45:51] <@dblaze> it seems
 339.
      [2008-02-01 20:45:57] <@FZeroX> we need to make sure we catch people earlier if they dl loads and don't ul, they make the problem worse
 340.
      [2008-02-01 20:45:59] <&A9> in a nice ordered list
 341.
      [2008-02-01 20:46:24] <@dblaze> the way I see it now, we're just manually doing what the script should be doing for us, in that channel
 342.
      [2008-02-01 20:46:27] <@FZeroX> we're thinking of ways to mitigate the problem
 343.
      [2008-02-01 20:46:33] <@FZeroX> what script?
 344.
      [2008-02-01 20:46:45] <&A9> firstly, its not an immediate problem
 345.
      [2008-02-01 20:46:54] <&A9> hdbits has like a 10.0
 346.
      [2008-02-01 20:46:57] <&A9> we have a 3.0
 347.
      [2008-02-01 20:47:03] <@FZeroX> torrents are not getting seeded
 348.
      [2008-02-01 20:47:07] <&A9> so we're not to far gone
 349.
      [2008-02-01 20:47:07] <@FZeroX> hit and running is a problem
 350.
      [2008-02-01 20:47:10] <@FZeroX> just ask blueboybob
 351.
      [2008-02-01 20:47:22] <&A9> i saw
 352.
      [2008-02-01 20:47:22] <@LogicalUser> and H&R rules/enforcement could help alot
 353.
      [2008-02-01 20:47:28] <&A9> there will be
 354.
      [2008-02-01 20:47:29] <@MattieTK> who by the way had his entire warning log deleted, please be careful in future Zero_Cool
 355.
      [2008-02-01 20:47:36] <&A9> but its going to need to wait for gazelle
 356.
      [2008-02-01 20:47:41] <&A9> sorry, but ya
 357.
      [2008-02-01 20:47:42] <@MattieTK> can we make warning logs read only in gazelle A9? =/
 358.
      [2008-02-01 20:47:51] <&skullyzero|work> who is Zero_Cool?
 359.
      [2008-02-01 20:47:56] <@LogicalUser> Qmark
 360.
      [2008-02-01 20:47:57] <@MattieTK> qmark
 361.
      [2008-02-01 20:48:12] <@dblaze> also, we have to account for all the users disabled cause of that cookie problem
 362.
      [2008-02-01 20:48:14] <&skullyzero|work> ah ok
 363.
      [2008-02-01 20:48:17] <@dblaze> this will peter off over time
 364.
      [2008-02-01 20:48:19] <&Zero_Cool> MattieTK do not tell me what to do. it was deleted for a reason
 365.
      [2008-02-01 20:48:29] <@MattieTK> and that was?
 366.
      [2008-02-01 20:48:29] <&A9> Zero_Cool: change your bloody nick :P
 367.
      [2008-02-01 20:48:31] <@LogicalUser> 577 re-enabled accounts so far
 368.
      [2008-02-01 20:48:42] <@FZeroX> select count(id) from torrents where times_completed > 1 and seeders < 2;
 369.
      [2008-02-01 20:48:46] <@FZeroX> who wants to guess at the answer?
 370.
      [2008-02-01 20:48:54] <@MattieTK> 30k?
 371.
      [2008-02-01 20:48:56] <@dblaze> 10,000
 372.
      [2008-02-01 20:48:58] <@FZeroX> 26k
 373.
      [2008-02-01 20:49:02] *** Zero_Cool changed nick to qMark
 374.
      [2008-02-01 20:49:05] <@dblaze> damn
 375.
      [2008-02-01 20:49:05] <@MattieTK> man, i rock
 376.
      [2008-02-01 20:49:15] <@LogicalUser> is still seeding 6 torrents from the FIRST WEEK
 377.
      [2008-02-01 20:49:28] <@LogicalUser> some with 15+ snatches so far
 378.
      [2008-02-01 20:49:41] <@FZeroX> I seed all torrents in my client that have 5 seeds or less
 379.
      [2008-02-01 20:49:52] <@LogicalUser> FzeroX keep in mind that count includes the snatches of disabled users
 380.
      [2008-02-01 20:49:56] <@LogicalUser> who... cannot seed back
 381.
      [2008-02-01 20:49:57] <@dblaze> okay, that reminds me. I wanted to ask you guys to put more details in when you disable someone, put the date, and your nick and why, at the very least. if it's a thread, link the thread. everything needs to be logged please
 382.
      [2008-02-01 20:50:15] <@MattieTK> already do dblaze, unless it's freakishly obvious
 383.
      [2008-02-01 20:50:16] <@dblaze> I need more to work with in that channel, and it's a good practice anyway
 384.
      [2008-02-01 20:50:20] <@MattieTK> or i'm doing mass disables, like now
 385.
      [2008-02-01 20:50:27] <@dblaze> even still, the log helps
 386.
      [2008-02-01 20:50:31] <@LogicalUser> i'm lazy on inactivity re-enable descriptions
 387.
      [2008-02-01 20:50:40] <@LogicalUser> but always detail on disables
 388.
      [2008-02-01 20:50:40] <@dblaze> past something in
 389.
      [2008-02-01 20:50:48] <&Kludge> Lady goes to the grocers for a cucumber. "Do you want that sliced love?" said the man. "What for says the lady. "It's a fanny i've got, not a fuckin slot machine!"
 390.
      [2008-02-01 20:50:53] <@dblaze> yeah, for enable I put 'asked in #disabled" or something
 391.
      [2008-02-01 20:51:10] <@dblaze> and details if necessary
 392.
      [2008-02-01 20:51:21] <@FZeroX> I put in "promised to" and whatever they promised me :P
 393.
      [2008-02-01 20:51:24] <@dblaze> anyway, the more logs we put, the more info we have the better
 394.
      [2008-02-01 20:51:34] <&A9> http://nxnod.net/utorrent/
 395.
      [2008-02-01 20:51:47] <@dblaze> yeah, I put those ppl in my friends list, but I have no way of making fucking comments on the friends list, to my chagrin
 396.
      [2008-02-01 20:51:55] <@dblaze> just wanted to use chagrin
 397.
      [2008-02-01 20:52:10] <@LogicalUser> if i recall, thats a gazelle feature?
 398.
      [2008-02-01 20:52:16] <@dblaze> yeah
 399.
      [2008-02-01 20:53:04] <&skullyzero|work> who is vars
 400.
      [2008-02-01 20:53:08] <@LogicalUser> sylar
 401.
      [2008-02-01 20:53:24] <@LogicalUser> i totally wanna ban the guy whos got 200gb upload, and has not grabbed a non-freeleech torrent yet
 402.
      [2008-02-01 20:53:33] <@FZeroX> lol
 403.
      [2008-02-01 20:53:44] <&Kludge> mmm. MattieTK made a post to that effect, LogicalUser
 404.
      [2008-02-01 20:53:46] <@LogicalUser> i mean, he's not violating our rules, its just irritatng
 405.
      [2008-02-01 20:53:56] <@dblaze> hehe, same
 406.
      [2008-02-01 20:53:56] <@MattieTK> http://what.cd/forums.php?action=viewtopic&topicid=7955
 407.
      [2008-02-01 20:54:10] <@dblaze> alright guys, gotta eat, bbl
 408.
      [2008-02-01 20:54:13] *** dblaze changed nick to dblaze|away
 409.
      [2008-02-01 20:55:14] <@MattieTK> i'm disabling one of my friends for ratio now, dedication ^^
 410.
      [2008-02-01 20:55:26] <@LogicalUser> how bad ratio? :P
 411.
      [2008-02-01 20:55:35] <&A9> 0.99 :P